Absolute Truth

[Guest AV1611_USER]

Non-believers are not honest seekers of the truth. How do I know this? Simple; if non-believers were honest seekers of the truth, there wouldn't be any non-believers.

So an honest seeker of the truth is someone seeking Christianity? Sounds awfully close minded and circular.

Exactly. The Bible contains the very words of God, and God is the standard of truth.

As for the second part, (I can't say this any more lightly) you're being a hypocrite. You are probably more close-minded than anyone here. You live in darkness and refuse to come out. In fact, you're not even able to believe the Bible unless God Himself shines His light into the darkness. Must I remind you that all arguments are circular. EVERY worldview must use it's own standards to prove its validity.

Edited June 5, 2007 by AV1611_USER

[Guest]

Non-believers are not honest seekers of the truth. How do I know this? Simple; if non-believers were honest seekers of the truth, there wouldn't be any non-believers.

So an honest seeker of the truth is someone seeking Christianity? Sounds awfully close minded and circular.

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Jeremiah 29:13

[Guest]

"The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved." Jeremiah 8:20

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:19

I'm close minded for seeking truth (which could include Christianity or any other religion, should I decide that they're true) instead of seeking just Christianity? I could call you close minded for saying that, but then the discussion would circulate and not go anywhere.

You Nailed it!

Who Decides TRUTH

Man or God

Got To Have Heart

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:8

To Find TRUTH

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Jeremiah 29:13

My Relative

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 8:15-16

My Brother

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Matthew 12:50

The TRUTH

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

Light Up

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:3-5

Believe

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 3:18-21

It is enough to make this grown man weep to watch a son of Adam I have come to dearly love knowingly decide to close his eyes to God's Light.

Where there is life, there is hope.

And prayer.

..... Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Zechariah 4:6

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[LadyRaven]

Non-believers are not honest seekers of the truth. How do I know this? Simple; if non-believers were honest seekers of the truth, there wouldn't be any non-believers.

More accurately, they cannot understand or find the truth they might seek because God has not enlightened and enabled them. Therefore they grope in the dark and will never find it even if they honestly believe they want it.

[LadyRaven]

Non-believers are not honest seekers of the truth. How do I know this? Simple; if non-believers were honest seekers of the truth, there wouldn't be any non-believers.

So an honest seeker of the truth is someone seeking Christianity? Sounds awfully close minded and circular.

Exactly. The Bible contains the very words of God, and God is the standard of truth.

As for the second part, (I can't say this any more lightly) you're being a hypocrite. You are probably more close-minded than anyone here. You live in darkness and refuse to come out. In fact, you're not even able to believe the Bible unless God Himself shines His light into the darkness. Must I remind you that all arguments are circular. EVERY worldview must use it's own standards to prove its validity.

If one is not able to understand, how is it hypocritical to be in that condition and question the biblical paradigm?

[Guest]

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."

Romans 8:5

How do we find truth?

A believer (say, a Christian) gets truth and knowledge about the universe from scripture and from faith. Everything else flows from this premise.

An atheist (speaking from experience) does not recognize the authority of the Bible to deliver the truth. As such, an atheist interested in knowledge of the truth must seek other sources of this knowledge.

Is it not this simple?

There Are Two Jokes In The Deck Of Life.

Neither One Knowable By Spiritually Dead Man

Joker One - The Sinner Man

A Theist

Or Atheist

Or Scientist

Or Religionist

Or Evolutionist

Or Mock Christian

God Hating Sinner Man

He Will Call His Ignorance Science Facts

He Will Call Himself The Judge Of God

He Will Rage Against The Lord Jesus

He Knows Not What He Does

Father Forgive Him

Simply A Natural Born Little Tin God

Blowing His Teeny Evil Tin Horn

Mocking The God of Creation

Evil Invention Of Evolution

God Calls Him A Fraud

He Naturally Hates God

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

He Is The Proud Inventor Of Evil Things

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans 1:28-32

Joker Number Two - The Master of The Proud

Blinder To The Authority Of The Holy Bible

Blinder To The Glory Of Saving Gospel

Blinder To The Lord Of All Creation

Blinder To The Lord Jesus Christ

Blinder To The One Of Love

Mind Blinder

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:4

Rider Of Sinner Man

; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:8

Dark World

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Ephesians 6:12

All This Leaving You With Two Choices..... The Devil Or The Lord

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Choose Wisely - Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[Guest AV1611_USER]

An atheist (speaking from experience) does not recognize the authority of the Bible to deliver the truth. As such, an atheist interested in knowledge of the truth must seek other sources of this knowledge.

Those "other sources" always lead to falsehood. Just look at countries where Christian influence is very small; you cannot say that they are thriving.

[MorningGlory]

An atheist (speaking from experience) does not recognize the authority of the Bible to deliver the truth. As such, an atheist interested in knowledge of the truth must seek other sources of this knowledge.

Those "other sources" always lead to falsehood. Just look at countries where Christian influence is very small; you cannot say that they are thriving.

Most of the Asian countries go against this statement. China, for example, is 59% non-religious, and 40.6% Buddhist, but I think you'd struggle to successfully argue that they aren't thriving.

Well, l don't need to struggle to tell you that the Chinese are NOT thriving; the ruling class is doing well, and the Communist government is making a lot of money (which is being spent on the military build up) but the vast majority of the one and a half billion Chinese live in poverty, without freedom. They can't even have a baby without government permission and forced abortions are rampant. The harvested organ market is rife in China also, with condemned prisoners being the prime source. Remember, they executed over 10,000 people last year. You also left out the estimated 100 million Christians in China (which is still only about 4%, unfortunately.) Thriving just isn't the word I would use to describe the average man or woman in China.

[MorningGlory]

An atheist (speaking from experience) does not recognize the authority of the Bible to deliver the truth. As such, an atheist interested in knowledge of the truth must seek other sources of this knowledge.

Those "other sources" always lead to falsehood. Just look at countries where Christian influence is very small; you cannot say that they are thriving.

Most of the Asian countries go against this statement. China, for example, is 59% non-religious, and 40.6% Buddhist, but I think you'd struggle to successfully argue that they aren't thriving.

Well, l don't need to struggle to tell you that the Chinese are NOT thriving; the ruling class is doing well, and the Communist government is making a lot of money (which is being spent on the military build up) but the vast majority of the one and a half billion Chinese live in poverty, without freedom. They can't even have a baby without government permission and forced abortions are rampant. The harvested organ market is rife in China also, with condemned prisoners being the prime source. Remember, they executed over 10,000 people last year. You also left out the estimated 100 million Christians in China (which is still only about 4%, unfortunately.) Thriving just isn't the word I would use to describe the average man or woman in China.

Ok, but what you just described sounds more like problems due to their form of government, rather than their religion.

Yes, exactly. It IS their form of government that's the problem. Their government is based on atheism, i.e. absence of a belief in God.

[MorningGlory]

Yes, exactly. It IS their form of government that's the problem. Their government is based on atheism, i.e. absence of a belief in God.

I am utterly baffled by the pointlessness of this argument. Even if you substantiate your assertions, you have proved nothing.

One: you have failed to show that the degree to which a country "thrives" (whatever that means) is connected in any way with the extent to which one religion or another is predominant.

Two: take the popularity of a belief, or the extent to which it is connected to a particular nation, or even the extent to which believers "thrive". These things have no bearing whatsoever on the truth of those beliefs. In other words, even if you could prove that more Christians thrive than atheists, you couldn't logically claim that therefore Christians are right and atheists are wrong.

I see your point, spblat. Now look at mine; no communist nation has thrived, at least not for long. Communist governments are Godless governments.

And I CAN logically claim that Christians are right and atheists are wrong. The Bible tells us that those who do not believe are going to hell. That's about as wrong as you can get, my friend.