Guest Calamity Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 And, what does the Bible say? John.3 [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Rom.5 [8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted January 25, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 25, 2004 OneAccord, If I accept universalism, I do not HAVE to have the love of God at all on THIS side of eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted January 25, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 25, 2004 Who said anything about some other way besides Christ? OA, if one's sins can be purged and cleansed in a temporary stay in hell, then that is ANOTHER way besides Christ. This is a very fair question, Calamity. ""Some argue that because 'universalists' believe that the judgements of God are not eternal punishment, but corrective in nature, that they are teaching a 'hell redemption'. They are accused of believing that hell can accomplish in a man what the mercy and blood of Jesus could not accomplish. Christ alone can save. There is no other way. But there is one thing that must be dealt with before any man can come to Christ and be saved, and that is that his rebellion must be removed. His pride and self-confidence and stubbornness and trust in things and pleasures that lead away from God must be broken. And this is where judgement comes in. Judgement destroys the power of the carnal mind which blinds, which is enmity against God---but judgement does not grant redemption. It only breaks rebellion. Redemption was purchased on the cross."" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calamity Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Judgement destroys the power of the carnal mind which blinds, which is enmity against God---but judgement does not grant redemption. It only breaks rebellion. Redemption was purchased on the cross."" Good morning, OA. Can you show me, from the Bible, where it says this about judgment? I've never seen it, that I can recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted January 25, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 25, 2004 As far as chances are concerned, that is another issue that is totaly in His hands, He delivered Israel many times over, until one day He told them I will deliver you no more, and we need to listen to that word He wrote, and quit playing Russian Roulette with our own personal salvations. We can go beyond the point of no return, and like the nation of Israel He will deliver us no more. But these things are not based on whether or not He loves us. He loves all His creation. Ah, but according to the Bible and the Messianic Jews on this board will vouch for this wholeheartedly, God is not through with Israel and He will yet deliver. Endure for Salvation Hosea 9:9-10:1 (The New King James Version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted January 25, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted January 25, 2004 And, what does the Bible say? John.3 [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Rom.5 [8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Yes Calamity! You are on the right track. God still loves sinners, yet he doesn't love sinners. How can we make these verses not be contradictory? Well, it seems that there are two types of love that God must have. A general love for all of mankind, and a close-knit, devout love for those whom are his children. Here is another verse: John 15:10 If you obey My commands, you will remain in My love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His love. So according to this verse, you must obey Christ's commands and remain in His love so that you will remain in the Father's love. Again, if this person turns away from obeying Christ's commands, and then doens't remain in God's love, will the Father's love remail in him? No, it won't. But this person will still be loved by God. So it must be decided that there are two seperate loves here. A general love for all mankind, and a different love for those who love and are devoted to Him. Can God love someone and still cast them away from His presence and into the lake of fire? Mark 10:17-22Â (NKJV) Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted January 25, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 25, 2004 Calamity The teaching that all will be saved is pleasant to human ears, even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted January 25, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted January 25, 2004 God's love IS conditional based upon our obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SisterT-Enduring2TheEnd Posted January 25, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2004 A deep word study of the word 'aionion would be very profitable to this discussion. Yes, and don't just take the Universalist's "spin" either. Problem Verses With "Aion" A Look At The Word "Aionion" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calamity Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Thanks, SisterT, for posting those links. That second one is really great and explains it nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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