endure4salvation

Howdy all! You knew I would chime in here! I don't know why, but for some reason the forum allowed me access today. I emailed George again to see if it is a problem on my side or what, but I am having a lot of trouble logging in. Anyway..... Baptism is a direct commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 16:16, Matthew 28:19-20). Baptism is the way that we are united with Christ (Romans 6:3-6, Galatians 3:27). Baptism saves us and gives us a clear conscience before God (1 Peter 3:21). Baptism is an elementary doctrine in Christianity (Hebrews 6:2). Also.......... For emphasis sake......... Look closely at the conversion story of The Apostle Paul (then Saul). Acts 22 records the story. Acts 22:8 tells us that Jesus told Saul who He was. Acts 22:10 shows us that Saul BELIEVED and CONFESSED that JESUS IS LORD. Yet, in Acts 22:16 we read that Saul was still unbaptized and was told to be baptized.....why? TO WASH AWAY HIS SINS AND CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD!!!!!!!! This and Romans 6 are clear that tells us that BAPTISM is HOW we are UNITED with Christ and HOW we call upon the name of the LORD to be saved. Be blessed all.

Well, I am still having a lot of problems logging in here. Sorry again for being gone so much. God bless each of you. I will stop by when I can---when the cpu lets me that is!

Philippians 4:3 has a reference to a person named Clement. He wrote a few letters that may have made up part of the original texts that were to be selected from to complete the Bible. Here are two quotes from him: These two passages are complete and irrefutable proofs that OSAS was not the original teaching handed down by Paul and the other apostles.

I have asked this many times and it has gone completely ignored. How can a doctrine (OSAS) be true considering nobody taught it for 1,500 years?

Hey all! Sorry I have been away so much lately. I keep getting this message that I am not able to log in. I talked to George about it a while back and he said it was a glitch and that I should reboot and try again. I keep doing it, but it keeps messing up. Only once about every 10 times does it work, and as you could guess, this is the 10th (or so). If anybody wants to stop by my new site, click here and you should make it. Love you all!

Hey all. Sorry I have been away. I have been unable to log in for several days, and this has happened several times. Plus I am busy working on my own website and forum. Time consuming, but well worth the effort! The forum looks great IMHO~!

I was about 5 seconds away from committing suicide (self-murder). I know fully well that even though I was saved when I was young, I would not be allowed to enter heaven if I had.

John.3 [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Rom.5 [8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Yes Calamity! You are on the right track. God still loves sinners, yet he doesn't love sinners. How can we make these verses not be contradictory? Well, it seems that there are two types of love that God must have. A general love for all of mankind, and a close-knit, devout love for those whom are his children. Here is another verse: So according to this verse, you must obey Christ's commands and remain in His love so that you will remain in the Father's love. Again, if this person turns away from obeying Christ's commands, and then doens't remain in God's love, will the Father's love remail in him? No, it won't. But this person will still be loved by God. So it must be decided that there are two seperate loves here. A general love for all mankind, and a different love for those who love and are devoted to Him. Can God love someone and still cast them away from His presence and into the lake of fire?

Welcome back endure. I have to disagree with you on this. God loves us - period. He loves those that do not even believe He exists. Rom.5 [8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. It matters not one iota what your or I think. The only thing that matters is: WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY? If the Bible says something that contradicts what we believe, then we need to CHANGE WHAT WE BELEIVE TO LINE UP WITH GOD'S ABSOLUTE AND UNCHANING TRUTH. And, what does the Bible say?

I am back!!!!!!! There are times when I can't log in for a few days for some reason. George says to re-boot, but it still took a few days. Anyway..... God's love IS conditional based upon our obedience. If we turn away from God, he will no longer love us. Reference Hosea 9:10-15

WOW! I sure have missed a lot here! I have been away----starting my own forum (if anybody wants the link PM me). I think that I am glad that I bowed out of this discussion.

The Apostle Judas Iscariot became a murderer, and 1 John 3 tells us that no murderer has eternal life in him. How it must greive God that he was so close to entering heaven and yet will miss out.

I say that because I heard on TV when they quoted from an old Hindu book that was written by a non-messianic Jew who was living under the roof of an Islamic descendant (although not an Arab, but an Asian) that it was when someone was able to mutter the phrase, "Big bad and bored Buddah brough books by borrowing blue glue from you." If you don't agree with me, you are unsaved.

Hey Wayne. Yes, you are right. I will also no longer post about OSAS for a while (unless people are asking sincere questions). I mean, what happened to the old covenant? It was broken by man!

OK, sorry for the abrasivness. But let us look real quick at a few things: 1. There was no UES before the fall: Adam & Eve both disobeyed a direct command of God and died, but it could not have been just a physical death, becasuse Adam lived 930 more years. This was a spiritual death by someone who was an innocent child of God, thus no UES. 2. There was no UES in the OT:

OK, we will go through just a few parts and then I will start a new thread and will not post in any others concerning OSAS. It will be how the early church and all the way until John Calvin did not have any OSAS-type teachings. Totally wrong! There are many verses that substantiate eternal salvation. And most you have read and disregarded , choosing to hold onto your self saving doctrine. I fully agree that there are many verses that substantiate eternal salvation. I don't disregard them, I hold them in the utmost respect. No, the Bible teaches that those who are in Christ have salvation. No problems here. What? Why don't you stop misrepresenting what I believe without knowing and ask me if I believe that? No, nothing I can do will merit salvation. A blasphemous statement? Check your motives for making such a statement. Nobody taught OSAS for 1,500 years....how can it be true? I believe that verse, but why do you deny other verses in Romans chapter 8? How about vv. 12-13 where Paul says that if we live according to the sinful nature we will die spiritually? Why can't we just stick to the Bible and the original church teachings without making accusiatory statements? Why point a finger at me and my walk....I know very well what my shortcomings are without you making me feel even worse than I do for them. He died for my sins, as well as the sins for the WHOLE WORLD. If Christ died for all sins, yet some will not enter heaven, you must admit that there is some sort of human responsibility involved....unless you are a classic 5-point Calvinist. Christ's work on the cross was not yet finished. It was the atoning sacrifice that was finished---the fulfillment of the Law of Moses. We are no longer under the Law of Moses....but we are under the Law of Christ, which is a higher standard than the Law of Moses. Don't forget that the Resurrection came AFTER the atoning sacrifice..."I am finished" doesn't mean "No more human responsibility." Your sarcasm is evident. Do you deny that a Christian can live a holy life? Or better, do you deny that living a holy life is required for entrance into heaven? Remember, Hebrews 12:12 and following is talking about living a holy life and in verse 14 the writer says "Without holiness no one will see the Lord." It is obvious that you are so indoctrinated with your theology that you don't even understand the other side. Why not ask me if I believe that instead of accusing me of believing something I don't? WOW! How about toning it down some with the negative tone? Does God only keep his positive promises............................ ................................... ................................... Or does He keep His negative ones as well? There is one thing you can do to lose your salvation.....disown Jesus. Can one disown Jesus unless they first own him? This is a promise. How about this one? How clear does Jesus need to speak in order to say that you absolutely MUST forgive other people thier sins against you in order to be forgiven? If you don't forgive others, you won't be forgiven either. Did Jesus ever give a parable about forgiveness? YES!!!! Did you see what happened here? God forgave the person, yet he refused to forgive someone else, so God sent such a one to be tortured! You can have your forgiven status revoked by God due to your unforgiving heart.

Again, OSAS/UES/POS was not taught until John Calvin and that was only 500 years ago. So for 75% of the Church history, this teaching has not existed. Clearly we can see that it came about because of an unsaved person. John Calvin was a brutal murderer and 1 John 3 clearly says that NO murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Never heard that John Calvin was a murderer? http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/ashes.htm

the "P" in Calvinism

Well, the one who had 5 and was a good steward received 5 more (well actually six--when the unfaithful servant [yet another refutation to OSAS] was sent to hell and his reward revoked, it was given to the one who had 5 +5).

Dont' know. Jesus was 12 when he first went to the temple. Children are absolutely innocent of sin:

Matthew 25:14-30 The parable of the talents. Some were given more responsibilities than others while in heaven. We will be there to serve and glory Jesus.

Actually, the sow was washed. The only thing that washes is the blood of Christ. Now then.....back to the topic at hand. Jesus told the Pharisees that they would receive greater condemnation, and in the WOW TO chapter Jesus said it would be more bearable for Sodom & G (sp) than it would be in the towns that rejected Him. Also, 1 John 5 talks about a sin unto death and a sin not unto death, thereby making varying degrees of sin even while here on earth.

Yea, it amazes me that even though OSAS/UES/POS was not taught for 1,500 years it is now somehow proven fact. The only place you will find it in the Bible is in Genesis 3:4 where Satan told Eve that sin wouldn't lead to spiritual death, thereby making OSAS/UES/POS a doctrine of demons, as refered to in 1 Peter 4:1.

Luke 15: 11,24,32 It is clear that the son was alive spiritually (verse 11), was dead spiritually (verse 32), and is alive again spiritually (verse 32). You absolutely must admit that this person remained physically alive the whole time. And you absolutely must admit that this person was refered to as dead and lost. This can only be spiritual death, because he was still physically alive.