tsth Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2007 Rev. 3:15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. What exactly did He mean? What does cold look like? Hot? The reason I ask is because today we had a "Luciferian" show up at church this morning. He immediately stated that this is what he was. In my opinion, someone such as this, is much more tolerable to deal with, than a "pretender" Christian. He did not hide who he was, and we knew who and what we were dealing with. Anybody care to define "cold" or "hot" in plain speak, "paraphrase"? In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2007 Grace to you, Bless you sister. I know your looking for a short concise answer. I think the answer is found in the next line of scripture; Re Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2007 Rev. 3:15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. What exactly did He mean? What does cold look like? Hot? The reason I ask is because today we had a "Luciferian" show up at church this morning. He immediately stated that this is what he was. In my opinion, someone such as this, is much more tolerable to deal with, than a "pretender" Christian. He did not hide who he was, and we knew who and what we were dealing with. Anybody care to define "cold" or "hot" in plain speak, "paraphrase"? In His Love, Suzanne This is from an essay I wrote - this was used as an example, but explains the purpose behind Revelation 3:15 - A good example of eisegesis in a popular understanding is Revelation 3:15-16. This famous text speaks of how the church at Laodecia was neither hot nor cold for the Lord, but instead was lukewarm, and therefore was about to be spit out by the Lord. Many pastors and laypeople have taught that Christ is saying, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 If you think of the conditions of the flesh in regard to cold or hot, either one, requires a person to respond/act in response to it. In other words, if we are cold, we must respond with a remedy to the cold, the same with heat, we respond to the condition of heat, for relief. They both require reaction/relief, lest one could die from it. But, with lukewarm, there is no reaction to it, it requires no remedy, and one is able to REMAIN in that condition. It is one without extremes and therefore requires no response. As it is with God, one should not remain with NO response....lest he end up in death. Also, with regard to the visitor I mentioned, I can respond to the man who openly claims to be without Christ, and for Satan, much easier than the man who claims to be of Christ, yet is truly of satan. The 2nd is much harder to contend with, as far as I am concerned, and the 2nd is much further into deception than the 1st. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtwo Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,144 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1978 Share Posted June 3, 2007 I've never heard that interpretation before, AK, but it makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2007 I've never heard that interpretation before, AK, but it makes a lot of sense. Mostly because we have interpreted this passage through American eyes. In our culture, "cold" is bad. However, if you live in the middle east, or in Turkey, cold is often used in an idiom dealing with refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 If you think of the conditions of the flesh in regard to cold or hot, either one, requires a person to respond/act in response to it. In other words, if we are cold, we must respond with a remedy to the cold, the same with heat, we respond to the condition of heat, for relief. They both require reaction/relief, lest one could die from it. But, with lukewarm, there is no reaction to it, it requires no remedy, and one is able to REMAIN in that condition. It is one without extremes and therefore requires no response. As it is with God, one should not remain with NO response....lest he end up in death. Also, with regard to the visitor I mentioned, I can respond to the man who openly claims to be without Christ, and for Satan, much easier than the man who claims to be of Christ, yet is truly of satan. The 2nd is much harder to contend with, as far as I am concerned, and the 2nd is much further into deception than the 1st. In His Love, Suzanne It is important to study a passage in light of how the original audience would have understood it. "Cold" and "Hot" are not presented as opposites, one being desirable, and the other not desirable. The only undesirable condition is that of lukewarm. The object Jesus has in view, is water, not so much the temperatures themselves. Cold and Hot water are both useful and desirable depending on your need. For the Laodecians, lukewarm was asssociated with death due to deadly parasites that grow in lukewarm water. The idea of "cold" and "hot" Christians as described in many churches today, would have been a foreign concept to the Laodecians and in fact, would have been foreign to believers in the first century. The notion that "hot" reflects a faithful Christian and "cold" reflects someone who is adverse to Christ and the Christian life, is a modern invention and is too often incorrectly read into the passage about Laodecia. As such, it is not in line with the message Jesus is giving them. Furthermore we have a problem in logic as well. Jesus said, "I wish you were either hot or cold..." Jesus presents "hot" and "cold" as equally desirable conditions. Yet, if "hot" means "on fire for God" and "cold" reflects the idea of being adverse to Christ and turned off of living for Christ," then such a statement from Jesus makes no sense. They are not morally equivalent conditions, and not equally desirable. Therefore Jesus cannot mean, "I wish you were for me, or against me." Jesus cannot mean, "I wish you were living for me, or not living for me at all." That is how he is often interpreted, but that would be incorrect. The only undesirable condition, the only one that garners criticism from Jesus is being lukewarm. Therefore "hot" and "cold" must be understood differently than what seems to be the current trend of interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 Oh, and for what it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Oh, and for what it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 3, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2007 Oh, and for what it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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