dugmando Posted July 10, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 114 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/06/1961 Share Posted July 10, 2007 methinkshe, I would say I understand and appreciate what you said about feet off the pedals letting Jesus have His Way, because we all should be this way but for many this Journey has many peaks and valleys. I know this has been my experience and somedays are a struggle to do what is right, and in those days my only strength is in Him. Well everyday my only real strength is in Him. Feet off the pedals letting Him have His way I like it! Doug-E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted July 10, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted July 10, 2007 EricH, You are so correct in what you posted I know this is simple and may not make much sense to anyone. But as I read your post and then the response I said to myself: Self, what he said it's sort of like a ticket or voucher it good and has worth but it doesn't really shows it's true value until you cash it in. May not make sense or may seem silly and if it does I apologize. Doug-E Good thought. Many truths are like that. They don't affect you until you put them into practice for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted July 11, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works. Ruth I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.) Then may I ask you this: if you are truly born of the Spirit and it is not you who lives but Christ who lives in you, can you commit murder? And just supposing you do, is it Christ in you who commits that murder, or is it your sinful nature in Adam, that should be counted as dead because it died with Christ, that commits that murder? Ruth What if I think about committing a murder, or purpose to do so in my heart? The Lord tells us that we have already done so. A sin is committed every time we offend a brother or sister in the church. Absolutely! So how are we to be saved from ourselves? Ruth I believe that we are in the process of being saved from our sin natures. Slavation has 2 components. We are justified at the moment of salvation. All of our sins are forgiven and cleansed. We receive a new nature at the pojnt of salvation. The second portion of our slavation os ongoing. it is the battle between our new nature and the old one (sanctification). We are saved in this way as we yield to Jesus and become more and more like Him Then keep pedalling, bro, keep pedalling! As for me, my feet are off the pedals and Jesus is working in me to WILL and TO DO... Ruth I think you misunderstand. EricH is not talking about earning salvation from sin. What you need realize that after one has been saved, we spend, or should spend the rest of our lives in the process of sancification. What EricH is referring to is the daily works we are created in Christ Jesus to do AFTER we get saved. Our works do not save us but rather reveal the salvation we have already obtained by grace through faith. Our works are to be an outgrowth of salvation, and also part of the process of sancfication by which we are daily dying to old habits and ways of thinking/living. We are commanded to work and to good works. Jesus NEVER promises to do the works for us. He says, "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your faither which is in heaven." We commanded to humble ourselves, we are commanded to be holy, we are commanded to give our bodies as living sacrifices, we are commanded to "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ." If anyone thinks the Chrisitan life is not about works, they are wrong. Sorry, EricH, I did misunderstand - I thought you were advocating a grace + works salvation! I see now that it was my misunderstanding. My apologies. (Note to self: READ MORE CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU OPEN MOUTH!) As Shiloh says, I believe that works are the evidence of salvation not a means to salvation. Furthermore, if we are not producing works (the fruit of the Spirit) then we should urgently question our salvation, because if we have indeed become a new creation in Christ, and we walk in that newness of life in the Spirit, then works will surely follow. A good tree WILL bear good fruit. The way I understand it is that it is not so much me trying to produce good works, as allowing Jesus in me to produce the fruits that are the natural expression of His character. I see it as having a choice to walk in the newness of life that I have in Christ, or to walk according to the flesh. Before I was born again of the Spirit, I had no choice but to walk in the flesh, because I was dead to Christ. Now I have a choice. Either to count the flesh as dead and walk in the Spirit, or to follow the desires of the flesh. And in any given situation, the two options always present themselves. Whereas before I might have become angry when insulted and have produced an angry reaction, I find I now have a choice, because Jesus in me says: do good to those who spitefully use you. So the choice is to let Jesus-in-me express His character, or to revert to the flesh. In Jesus, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted July 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2007 Sin is a condition, it is not an action. Unles one can understand this basic precept, one will spend forever trying to discern whether this action or that action is or is not a sin. Jesus came to save us from an inherited-from-Adam sin nature, that can only p[roduce eveil acts, such that even our good deeds are as filthy rags to God. When one is born again of the spirit of God, then all deeds that result from that spiritual rebirth, i.e. Jesus in me, are inherently good and acceptable. All deeds that come from the flesh remain inherently sinful, whatever they are, including good works. Ruth I think sin is both a condition and an action. Humans have a sin nature, but commit sinful acts. Murder is sinful regardless of the attitude one has when they do it (as is adultery, gossip etc.) Then may I ask you this: if you are truly born of the Spirit and it is not you who lives but Christ who lives in you, can you commit murder? And just supposing you do, is it Christ in you who commits that murder, or is it your sinful nature in Adam, that should be counted as dead because it died with Christ, that commits that murder? Ruth What if I think about committing a murder, or purpose to do so in my heart? The Lord tells us that we have already done so. A sin is committed every time we offend a brother or sister in the church. Absolutely! So how are we to be saved from ourselves? Ruth I believe that we are in the process of being saved from our sin natures. Slavation has 2 components. We are justified at the moment of salvation. All of our sins are forgiven and cleansed. We receive a new nature at the pojnt of salvation. The second portion of our slavation os ongoing. it is the battle between our new nature and the old one (sanctification). We are saved in this way as we yield to Jesus and become more and more like Him Then keep pedalling, bro, keep pedalling! As for me, my feet are off the pedals and Jesus is working in me to WILL and TO DO... Ruth I think you misunderstand. EricH is not talking about earning salvation from sin. What you need realize that after one has been saved, we spend, or should spend the rest of our lives in the process of sancification. What EricH is referring to is the daily works we are created in Christ Jesus to do AFTER we get saved. Our works do not save us but rather reveal the salvation we have already obtained by grace through faith. Our works are to be an outgrowth of salvation, and also part of the process of sancfication by which we are daily dying to old habits and ways of thinking/living. We are commanded to work and to good works. Jesus NEVER promises to do the works for us. He says, "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your faither which is in heaven." We commanded to humble ourselves, we are commanded to be holy, we are commanded to give our bodies as living sacrifices, we are commanded to "put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ." If anyone thinks the Chrisitan life is not about works, they are wrong. Sorry, EricH, I did misunderstand - I thought you were advocating a grace + works salvation! I see now that it was my misunderstanding. My apologies. (Note to self: READ MORE CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU OPEN MOUTH!) As Shiloh says, I believe that works are the evidence of salvation not a means to salvation. Furthermore, if we are not producing works (the fruit of the Spirit) then we should urgently question our salvation, because if we have indeed become a new creation in Christ, and we walk in that newness of life in the Spirit, then works will surely follow. A good tree WILL bear good fruit. The way I understand it is that it is not so much me trying to produce good works, as allowing Jesus in me to produce the fruits that are the natural expression of His character. I see it as having a choice to walk in the newness of life that I have in Christ, or to walk according to the flesh. Before I was born again of the Spirit, I had no choice but to walk in the flesh, because I was dead to Christ. Now I have a choice. Either to count the flesh as dead and walk in the Spirit, or to follow the desires of the flesh. And in any given situation, the two options always present themselves. Whereas before I might have become angry when insulted and have produced an angry reaction, I find I now have a choice, because Jesus in me says: do good to those who spitefully use you. So the choice is to let Jesus-in-me express His character, or to revert to the flesh. In Jesus, Ruth No offence taken at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted July 11, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 No offence taken at all Thankyou for your graciousness. And thank the Lord for grace! That we can err and stray from His paths like lost sheep but it will not be held against those who are IN JESUS. Hallelujah! IN JESUS, Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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