Women pastors

[chin]

i'm sorry, i like her. i'll listen to her while you listen to harry potter.

I would recommend Harry Potter over her any day. As least he is not masquerading as a Christian teacher.

sw

i'm sorry, i did'nt mean to offend anyone here. i guess i was looking for lively debate and got carried away. much love to you all!

[Scarletprayers]

i'm sorry, i like her. i'll listen to her while you listen to harry potter.

I would recommend Harry Potter over her any day. As least he is not masquerading as a Christian teacher.

sw

i'm sorry, i did'nt mean to offend anyone here. i guess i was looking for lively debate and got carried away. much love to you all!

We all do it every now and then!

[st. Worm]

i'm sorry, i like her. i'll listen to her while you listen to harry potter.

I would recommend Harry Potter over her any day. As least he is not masquerading as a Christian teacher.

sw

i'm sorry, i did'nt mean to offend anyone here. i guess i was looking for lively debate and got carried away. much love to you all!

I enjoy "lively" debate too and was not offended. But in all seriousness I would still move away from Joyce Meyers and her ilk.

sw

[BrotherJohnf]

Well, I am encouraged that at least this topic is allowed to be debated here. I will be perfectly frank. It is my opinion that recent teachings on this matter are simply doctrines of devils held by those who have turned away their ears from the truth and have been turned aside unto fables. Yet why is this happening? I believe that most of it is the failure of men to lead in the home, the church as well as in government. In Leviticus God warns the children of Israel:

19:29

Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness

God is clear. If men exploit their daughters sexually, then the land will be defiled. We live in a land which has fallen to whoredom. Television, movies, magazines, and the internet are filled with salacious images of scantily clad women. The land has fallen to whoredom. Our politician are held on a short leash for fear that their whoremongering should be exposed. The land has fallen to whoredom. We have become the laughingstock of other cultures as we are seen as the great satan and sin city. The land has fallen to whoredom. Even in our churches women and young girls compete to see who can get away with dressing the most provocatively. The land has fallen to whoredom. Vast numbers of young women are tattooing their backsides and cutting their chest open for implants. The land has fallen to whoredom. What does God's Word say about this:

Proverbs

7:10

And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.

7:11

(She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:

30:20

Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

9:13

A foolish woman is clamorous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing.

9:14

For she sitteth at the door of her house, on a seat in the high places of the city,

9:15

To call passengers who go right on their ways:

9:16

Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

9:17

Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.

9:18

But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

21:19

It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.

After the land is filled with whoredom it ends up being filled with all manner of rebellion which includes feminism. To the extent that men in the church follow after whoredom, the church ends up filled with feminism and rebellion. Jesus shows us where women teaching in the church leads to, whoredom:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Revelation

Chapter 2

2:20

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

2:21

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

2:22

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

2:23

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Jesus refers to this woman as Jezebel, why? Jezebel was the wife of king Ahab. An utterly wicked woman who was the daughter pagan king:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of 1 Kings

Chapter 16

16:31

And it came to pass, as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Zidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him.

The spirit of Jezebel is one of a usurper of authority. Jezebel sought to slay all the prophets of God. If it were not for the intervention of one of the servants of the king who hid the prophets in caves, she would have destroyed all but Elijah. Elijah then fled for his life to the mountain of God for she sought to slay him too. This same whorish murderous spirit will soon fill the earth as satan uses it to slay God's messengers once again:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Revelation

Chapter 17

17:3

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

17:4

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

17:5

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

17:6

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The spirit of whoredom which fills the land is beginning to take over the churches as well. This open rebellion causes the Word of God to be blasphemed:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Titus

Chapter 2

2:3

The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

2:4

That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

2:5

To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

For even pagan idolatrous men are aware of the order of nature and are horrified by this type of rebellion. God used the chaste and discreet Esther to save the nation of Israel in her faithfullness. She is contrasted with the self-willed and rebellious pagan queen:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Esther

Chapter 1

1:10

On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,

1:11

To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.

1:12

But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.

1:13

Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment:

1:14

And the next unto him was Carshena, Shethar, Admatha, Tarshish, Meres, Marsena, and Memucan, the seven princes of Persia and Media, which saw the king's face, and which sat the first in the kingdom;)

1:15

What shall we do unto the queen Vashti according to law, because she hath not performed the commandment of the king Ahasuerus by the chamberlains?

1:16

And Memucan answered before the king and the princes, Vashti the queen hath not done wrong to the king only, but also to all the princes, and to all the people that are in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus.

1:17

For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women, so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported, The king Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not.

1:18

Likewise shall the ladies of Persia and Media say this day unto all the king's princes, which have heard of the deed of the queen. Thus shall there arise too much contempt and wrath.

1:19

If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him, and let it be written among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, that it be not altered, That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.

As surely as whoredom is followed by rebellion and usurpation in the Church, the Word of God is blasphemed by unbelievers. Men who cannot rule their own household are excluded from service due to the fact that they cannot possibly rule the Church if they cannot even rule their own household. How much worse to have women ruling the Church? God forbid:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of 1 Timothy

Chapter 3

3:2

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3:3

Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

3:4

One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

3:5

(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Only in the most Godless nations do women bear rule. Most of them are gone now because God has wiped them off the face of the earth. Those nations were filled with whoredom, idolatry, witchcraft and murder. Is the Christian west now fallen so far that even the pagan nations of old would be ashamed to be like that? It appears so. But God has never changed, and he never will change. The counterfeit church is called a whore by God and will be judged by him. He warns us to depart from her wickedness:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Revelation

Chapter 18

18:1

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

18:2

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

18:3

For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

[Scarletprayers]

Your about 100 years out of date, the "church" no longer blames all sin on women...........had enough now, going away.

[st. Worm]

Well, I am encouraged that at least this topic is allowed to be debated here. I will be perfectly frank. It is my opinion that recent teachings on this matter are simply doctrines of devils held by those who have turned away their ears from the truth and have been turned aside unto fables. Yet why is this happening? I believe that most of it is the failure of men to lead in the home, the church as well as in government. In Leviticus God warns the children of Israel:

19:29

Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness

God is clear. If men exploit their daughters sexually, then the land will be defiled. We live in a land which has fallen to whoredom. Television, movies, magazines, and the internet are filled with salacious images of scantily clad women. The land has fallen to whoredom. Our politician are held on a short leash for fear that their whoremongering should be exposed. The land has fallen to whoredom. We have become the laughingstock of other cultures as we are seen as the great satan and sin city. The land has fallen to whoredom. Even in our churches women and young girls compete to see who can get away with dressing the most provocatively. The land has fallen to whoredom. Vast numbers of young women are tattooing their backsides and cutting their chest open for implants. The land has fallen to whoredom. What does God's Word say about this:

Proverbs

7:10

And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.

7:11

(She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:

30:20

Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

9:13

A foolish woman is clamorous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing.

9:14

For she sitteth at the door of her house, on a seat in the high places of the city,

9:15

To call passengers who go right on their ways:

9:16

Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

9:17

Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.

9:18

But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

21:19

It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.

After the land is filled with whoredom it ends up being filled with all manner of rebellion which includes feminism. To the extent that men in the church follow after whoredom, the church ends up filled with feminism and rebellion. Jesus shows us where women teaching in the church leads to, whoredom:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Revelation

Chapter 2

2:20

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

2:21

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

2:22

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

2:23

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Jesus refers to this woman as Jezebel, why? Jezebel was the wife of king Ahab. An utterly wicked woman who was the daughter pagan king:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of 1 Kings

Chapter 16

16:31

And it came to pass, as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Zidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him.

The spirit of Jezebel is one of a usurper of authority. Jezebel sought to slay all the prophets of God. If it were not for the intervention of one of the servants of the king who hid the prophets in caves, she would have destroyed all but Elijah. Elijah then fled for his life to the mountain of God for she sought to slay him too. This same whorish murderous spirit will soon fill the earth as satan uses it to slay God's messengers once again:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Revelation

Chapter 17

17:3

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

17:4

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

17:5

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

17:6

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The spirit of whoredom which fills the land is beginning to take over the churches as well. This open rebellion causes the Word of God to be blasphemed:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Titus

Chapter 2

2:3

The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

2:4

That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

2:5

To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

For even pagan idolatrous men are aware of the order of nature and are horrified by this type of rebellion. God used the chaste and discreet Esther to save the nation of Israel in her faithfullness. She is contrasted with the self-willed and rebellious pagan queen:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Esther

Chapter 1

1:10

On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,

1:11

To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.

1:12

But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.

1:13

Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment:

1:14

And the next unto him was Carshena, Shethar, Admatha, Tarshish, Meres, Marsena, and Memucan, the seven princes of Persia and Media, which saw the king's face, and which sat the first in the kingdom;)

1:15

What shall we do unto the queen Vashti according to law, because she hath not performed the commandment of the king Ahasuerus by the chamberlains?

1:16

And Memucan answered before the king and the princes, Vashti the queen hath not done wrong to the king only, but also to all the princes, and to all the people that are in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus.

1:17

For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women, so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported, The king Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not.

1:18

Likewise shall the ladies of Persia and Media say this day unto all the king's princes, which have heard of the deed of the queen. Thus shall there arise too much contempt and wrath.

1:19

If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him, and let it be written among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, that it be not altered, That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.

As surely as whoredom is followed by rebellion and usurpation in the Church, the Word of God is blasphemed by unbelievers. Men who cannot rule their own household are excluded from service due to the fact that they cannot possibly rule the Church if they cannot even rule their own household. How much worse to have women ruling the Church? God forbid:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of 1 Timothy

Chapter 3

3:2

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3:3

Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

3:4

One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

3:5

(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Only in the most Godless nations do women bear rule. Most of them are gone now because God has wiped them off the face of the earth. Those nations were filled with whoredom, idolatry, witchcraft and murder. Is the Christian west now fallen so far that even the pagan nations of old would be ashamed to be like that? It appears so. But God has never changed, and he never will change. The counterfeit church is called a whore by God and will be judged by him. He warns us to depart from her wickedness:

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Revelation

Chapter 18

18:1

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

18:2

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

18:3

For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

18:4

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

No offense, but I am wondering what that has to do with the subject of women pastoring. While I think the Bible is fairly clear that women are not to be ordained as pastors, you are muddying the waters with other biblical verses that have nothing to do with this subject. Are you hijacking your own thread?

sw

[methinkshe]

Hi, BrotherJohn,

You said:

"I believe that most of it is the failure of men to lead in the home, the church as well as in government."

However, you then went on to quote every which way that WOMEN have failed/continue to fail.

Now, I happen to agree with you, in principle, but I also understand why Scarletprayers takes exception to your post. Do you not think it is slightly unbalanced? And it doesn't seem to me to reflect you initial contention that it is men who have failed. Perhaps you could elaborate.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[BrotherJohnf]

[st. Worm]

No offense, but I am wondering what that has to do with the subject of women pastoring. While I think the Bible is fairly clear that women are not to be ordained as pastors, you are muddying the waters with other biblical verses that have nothing to do with this subject. Are you hijacking your own thread?

sw

[BrotherJohnf]

Hi, BrotherJohn,

You said:

"I believe that most of it is the failure of men to lead in the home, the church as well as in government."

However, you then went on to quote every which way that WOMEN have failed/continue to fail.

Now, I happen to agree with you, in principle, but I also understand why Scarletprayers takes exception to your post. Do you not think it is slightly unbalanced? And it doesn't seem to me to reflect you initial contention that it is men who have failed. Perhaps you could elaborate.

In Jesus,

Ruth

Well,

I'm sorry, I thought I was clear. The sin the men are committing is whoredom. They are lusting after each others young daughters, viewing pornography, committing fornication. Believe it or not, it is almost as bad amongst Christian men as it is amongst unbelievers. This opens the door for the spirit of Jezebel to invade the church. I am quite certain that these sins are directly related and reinforce one another. Are women greater sinners than men? Hahaha, of course not! But they do have different weaknesses. Men are tempted by whores and sexual impurity. Women are tempted to usurp authority over men. Women are also tempted to gain power over men by dressing as whores. All of these things have invaded the Church and it is my belief that they are all related to one another.