My political viewpoint...

[KeilanS]

Just a note I thought I should add.

When I am 18 I will vote for the conservatives. While I agree with some liberal economic policies, the liberals are very... well... liberal in terms of morals and biblical issues. And of course I put those ahead of economic issues.

WOW you're only 15??? You are very well-spoken for such a youngin'!!

Glad you started this thread, given my own current political-identity crisis.

mathy

P.S. Hey you're really 16 (I just saw another post where you stated your age lol)!! Change your profile silly!

I have a profile?

Thanks Mathy, and now I'm curious, given your political-identity crisis, do you agree or disagree with what I've been posting? This should kind of explain my dilemma for you. I am morally conservative and economically liberal.

[Marnie]

You're a smart dude. The problem is you don't have a lot of experience outside your country. Canada's health care system looks good to you because you haven't had experience outside your country. That's not a criticism, just the way it is. What you likely here are all the "urban legends" about women going in to have a baby and losing their homes because of the bill, or some such story. In America, health care is largely a personal responsibility. Our tax burden is a lot less than yours, so we shop for health insurance if we need it. My husband is from Canada and says the level and availability of services here far surpasses what you have. Now, having said that, health care is a mess down here, too.

Look, generally, with few exceptions, there is nothing the government does that the private sector can't do better and more efficiently.

Some websites for your consideration:

The Ludwig Von Mises Intitute

William Gairdner's Website, A True Conservative>>>A Canadian hero IMO. His book, The Trouble With Canada should be required reading

[KeilanS]

Well, I suppose I can claim ignorance as an excuse for my viewpoint.

I just have one question, how does health care work for the "hard luck cases" if you will in the US? Like take a single-mom earning minimum wage. What does she do if she needs surgery for a knee injury, or some other medical thing? It's mainly the poor I worry about. Any system is great if you're a teacher or a doctor or a professor, you'll come out on top. But I know a few single moms and people who just can't pursue great jobs, what would happen to them and their children with privatized health care or education?

[mathqueen]

Keilan:

HAHAHA "if you're a teacher" HAHAHA. Ok I'm sort of kidding here, but with my particular school district, it would cost $1000 A MONTH to cover hubby and me, but praise God my hubby has much more affordable coverage through his employer (we only have to pay about $225, and that's medical, dental and vision coverage). Now, most districts pay all or most of the insurance premiums when it comes to teachers, but our district moved it over to the salary bracket, so I "make more" than the surrounding districts' teachers.

As for your question about the single mom working and earning minimum wage, if she needs surgery, she is almost surely out of luck. She can go to an emergency clinic/hospital but will be stuck with bills so astronomical she can never pay it. So I don't really know what happens to her. Others here may be able to answer that better than I can.

As for our common score on the morality quiz, I think you're right. We are both conservative when it comes to morals; however I may not be AS conservative as others as to the role I think government should play in this arena. Not sure where I actually stand in my mind economically. I think there should be more services available, especially medically, but I do not ascribe to the view that everyone should be equal economically when some work very hard and some don't at all (this point was made earlier in this thread by others). I have conflicting feelings here because I know of people who take HUGE advantage of systems available in the U.S., and it upsets me because there are people who legitimately need them and use them with integrity. Now I'm just rambling...sheesh.

[KeilanS]

Keilan:

HAHAHA "if you're a teacher" HAHAHA. Ok I'm sort of kidding here, but with my particular school district, it would cost $1000 A MONTH to cover hubby and me, but praise God my hubby has much more affordable coverage through his employer (we only have to pay about $225, and that's medical, dental and vision coverage). Now, most districts pay all or most of the insurance premiums when it comes to teachers, but our district moved it over to the salary bracket, so I "make more" than the surrounding districts' teachers.

As for your question about the single mom working and earning minimum wage, if she needs surgery, she is almost surely out of luck. She can go to an emergency clinic/hospital but will be stuck with bills so astronomical she can never pay it. So I don't really know what happens to her. Others here may be able to answer that better than I can.

As for our common score on the morality quiz, I think you're right. We are both conservative when it comes to morals; however I may not be AS conservative as others as to the role I think government should play in this arena. Not sure where I actually stand in my mind economically. I think there should be more services available, especially medically, but I do not ascribe to the view that everyone should be equal economically when some work very hard and some don't at all (this point was made earlier in this thread by others). I have conflicting feelings here because I know of people who take HUGE advantage of systems available in the U.S., and it upsets me because there are people who legitimately need them and use them with integrity. Now I'm just rambling...sheesh.

Well, I agree that not everyone should be equal financially. I just think we should be "more" equal. As in nobody should make millions a year. It's ridiculous. But my ideal system probably isn't socialism, it's... something else. I have no name for it.

Now the medical thing for a single mom is probably the reason I like our health care system. In Canada, that mom would wait 8 weeks for treatment, but she would get it, and she'd get it free. Just to put things in perspective for me, I once had to have a fairly major dental operation. I had two extra teeth between my child and adult teeth, so they had to put me to sleep, remove four child teeth, cut into my gums and take out the two extra ones and then sew it back up. I believe that was $200 at most for my family, what would it cost me in the US?

And then your teacher thing is another reason. I guess a teacher is far below a professor/doctor in terms of salary, but they should be able to get decent medical care. In Canada it's free, but not in the US apparently. Now I know you make more than us after taxes, but you say you still would have trouble paying health care.... if you don't mind me asking, what exactly do you pay in taxes?

[Marnie]

Keilan:

HAHAHA "if you're a teacher" HAHAHA. Ok I'm sort of kidding here, but with my particular school district, it would cost $1000 A MONTH to cover hubby and me, but praise God my hubby has much more affordable coverage through his employer (we only have to pay about $225, and that's medical, dental and vision coverage). Now, most districts pay all or most of the insurance premiums when it comes to teachers, but our district moved it over to the salary bracket, so I "make more" than the surrounding districts' teachers.

As for your question about the single mom working and earning minimum wage, if she needs surgery, she is almost surely out of luck. She can go to an emergency clinic/hospital but will be stuck with bills so astronomical she can never pay it. So I don't really know what happens to her. Others here may be able to answer that better than I can.

As for our common score on the morality quiz, I think you're right. We are both conservative when it comes to morals; however I may not be AS conservative as others as to the role I think government should play in this arena. Not sure where I actually stand in my mind economically. I think there should be more services available, especially medically, but I do not ascribe to the view that everyone should be equal economically when some work very hard and some don't at all (this point was made earlier in this thread by others). I have conflicting feelings here because I know of people who take HUGE advantage of systems available in the U.S., and it upsets me because there are people who legitimately need them and use them with integrity. Now I'm just rambling...sheesh.

Well, hold on. What is your health worth? If you need the surgery, you'll find a way to pay for it. Most hospitals will work with the patient. You take out loans, you borrow, you work two jobs, you make arrangements. I did it way back in the olden days pre-prosperity, and when I had money, I would trek into the billing office and pay up. Thankfully those days are past.

[Marnie]

I can't get health insurance because of the extent of my injuries; "pre-existing conditions." So I pay cash for all my doctor visits and things I need to have routinely done. My last visit came to about $35,000.00 But, I knew it was coming, so I budgeted for it. And I got a break because I have built up a relationship with both the doctor and the hospital.

[KeilanS]

Well, I'm glad you can budget like that Marnie, and I'm sorry for whatever caused your health issues, it sounds horrible.

But I have a friend, she's 26, a single-mom and working a job at a grocery store for minimum wage where they refuse to give her more than 20 hours a week. She can't go to university because she can't even afford an apartment and a ride to work, let alone education bills. What if she injured herself? I still need a better perspective on this, say you got in a car accident and mangled your knee. How much would it cost to get knee surgery and maybe a few months of follow up physiotherapy?

[mathqueen]

Well, I agree that not everyone should be equal financially. I just think we should be "more" equal. As in nobody should make millions a year. It's ridiculous. But my ideal system probably isn't socialism, it's... something else. I have no name for it.

Now the medical thing for a single mom is probably the reason I like our health care system. In Canada, that mom would wait 8 weeks for treatment, but she would get it, and she'd get it free. Just to put things in perspective for me, I once had to have a fairly major dental operation. I had two extra teeth between my child and adult teeth, so they had to put me to sleep, remove four child teeth, cut into my gums and take out the two extra ones and then sew it back up. I believe that was $200 at most for my family, what would it cost me in the US?

And then your teacher thing is another reason. I guess a teacher is far below a professor/doctor in terms of salary, but they should be able to get decent medical care. In Canada it's free, but not in the US apparently. Now I know you make more than us after taxes, but you say you still would have trouble paying health care.... if you don't mind me asking, what exactly do you pay in taxes?

I know that dental work you had would cost at least $1000 easy, BUT that would be for someone with no dental insurance...someone with it would pay little to none.

Actually teachers here make a good salary, maybe even comparable to a professor's salary depending on the number of years experience and degrees, etc.

As for taxes, hubby and I together paid around $11,000 state and federal together, but we got some of that back from deductions, so we only paid around $8000 in the end. Given that our medical premiums and office visits/prescriptions cost us around $6000 (and the amount you pay for your premiums are taken out pre-tax, so that's a good thing), altogether it's about $14,000. How much in taxes would someone in Canada pay for free medical care? I wonder how far off we are from each other....

[KeilanS]

Well, I'm just a step above shouting out random numbers here, but a teachers salary averages about $55,000 ($50,000 USD) here, usually ranging from $30,000 USD for a beginning teacher to $70,000 USD for an experienced one. I am not sure of taxes, I suspect a teacher making $70,000 would pay about 40% tax, and much less for a teacher making $30,000 of course.

I wish I could give more exact numbers, my percentage might be inflated, because the numbers usually come from people complaining about how much they pay in tax.

Edit: I was just struck by curiousity. Would a teacher working in a private school earn more or less on average than one working in a public school?

Edit 2: Just in case this will effect anyones opinions greatly, I plan to become a high school teacher.