My political viewpoint...

[mathqueen]

Well, I'm just a step above shouting out random numbers here, but a teachers salary averages about $55,000 ($50,000 USD) here, usually ranging from $30,000 USD for a beginning teacher to $70,000 USD for an experienced one. I am not sure of taxes, I suspect a teacher making $70,000 would pay about 40% tax, and much less for a teacher making $30,000 of course.

I wish I could give more exact numbers, my percentage might be inflated, because the numbers usually come from people complaining about how much they pay in tax.

Edit: I was just struck by curiousity. Would a teacher working in a private school earn more or less on average than one working in a public school?

Edit 2: Just in case this will effect anyones opinions greatly, I plan to become a high school teacher.

Private school pays SO MUCH less, I could never work for one. I will be making around $75,000 come September (sorry if that's improper to say, but it goes with the context of this convo), and if I lived in Canada, the taxes, based on your estimate, would be more than I am paying here.

[mathqueen]

And YAY you're going to be a high school teacher YAY!!!

[KeilanS]

Forgive me if this is improper, but do you mean $75,000 take home or after taxes?

Also, I find it kind of ironic that public pays a lot more. You make more than a Canadian teacher because our health care is government-controlled, yet if your education wasn't government-controlled that might not be the case. On that note, do you agree with education being government controlled?

[mathqueen]

Forgive me if this is improper, but do you mean $75,000 take home or after taxes?

Also, I find it kind of ironic that public pays a lot more. You make more than a Canadian teacher because our health care is government-controlled, yet if your education wasn't government-controlled that might not be the case. On that note, do you agree with education being government controlled?

Sorry, I meant $70,000, and that's before taxes, retirement, and the union dues that I am forced to pay . This past school year, my salary was about $65,000, and after all the deductions, I brought home about $50,000.

Yes it is ironic how much more public pays! And I am considered as working for the government.

[KeilanS]

Hmm, it seems like you are making slightly more than a Canadian teacher would, but not a huge amount. I will double-check my tax numbers eventually (when I find someone who will know). I guess this debate would really come down to is it better for each of us to make more money, or should we take a hit in order to help the people who really can't handle health care fees (my single-mom friend for example) and education fees (I know so many people who couldn't afford the $4000-$6000 a year that would be required to educate a child to the standards we have now).

And I also work for the government mathy! (how many 16 year olds can say that! )

While I still think I would prefer our government health care, I can see both sides of the issue a bit more clearly now... although our government controlled education is still something I would hate to lose. (and I guess the US has that too)

[Marnie]

Well, I'm glad you can budget like that Marnie, and I'm sorry for whatever caused your health issues, it sounds horrible.

But I have a friend, she's 26, a single-mom and working a job at a grocery store for minimum wage where they refuse to give her more than 20 hours a week. She can't go to university because she can't even afford an apartment and a ride to work, let alone education bills. What if she injured herself? I still need a better perspective on this, say you got in a car accident and mangled your knee. How much would it cost to get knee surgery and maybe a few months of follow up physiotherapy?

If she's in Canada, she's covered, no?

Down here nobody is denied essential services. Plus there is Medicare/Medicaid, and individual states have programs for low income people. You can find the help if you need it. There are many benevolent groups as well, The Shriner's, Catholic Charities, etc. When I couldn't afford it, the medical help was provided me.

[KeilanS]

Well, I'm glad you can budget like that Marnie, and I'm sorry for whatever caused your health issues, it sounds horrible.

But I have a friend, she's 26, a single-mom and working a job at a grocery store for minimum wage where they refuse to give her more than 20 hours a week. She can't go to university because she can't even afford an apartment and a ride to work, let alone education bills. What if she injured herself? I still need a better perspective on this, say you got in a car accident and mangled your knee. How much would it cost to get knee surgery and maybe a few months of follow up physiotherapy?

If she's in Canada, she's covered, no?

Down here nobody is denied essential services. Plus there is Medicare/Medicaid, and individual states have programs for low income people. You can find the help if you need it. There are many benevolent groups as well, The Shriner's, Catholic Charities, etc. When I couldn't afford it, the medical help was provided me.

She is covered in Canada. (or would be if she needed surgery, that part was hypothetical, she's quite healthy). If they really could get help without needing to pay back huge fines later, that would put to rest a lot of my concerns with the USA's health care. So just to make sure I'm clear, say my friend had something where she occasionally needed medical attention with a huge bill (you said $35,000 for something you needed, so I'll go with that). Say every 3 years she needed some treatment worth $35,000. Would that be doable? Or would she end up with crushing debts that she could never pay off? If not then she might be alive, but she'd be alive with a rapidly increasing loan worth hundreds of thousands.

[KeilanS]

And YAY you're going to be a high school teacher YAY!!!

Just noticed this comment. Yay indeed! Now I just need to decide what to major in and I'm set. This has been my dilemma for the past few months.

[Marnie]

Well, I'm glad you can budget like that Marnie, and I'm sorry for whatever caused your health issues, it sounds horrible.

But I have a friend, she's 26, a single-mom and working a job at a grocery store for minimum wage where they refuse to give her more than 20 hours a week. She can't go to university because she can't even afford an apartment and a ride to work, let alone education bills. What if she injured herself? I still need a better perspective on this, say you got in a car accident and mangled your knee. How much would it cost to get knee surgery and maybe a few months of follow up physiotherapy?

If she's in Canada, she's covered, no?

Down here nobody is denied essential services. Plus there is Medicare/Medicaid, and individual states have programs for low income people. You can find the help if you need it. There are many benevolent groups as well, The Shriner's, Catholic Charities, etc. When I couldn't afford it, the medical help was provided me.

She is covered in Canada. (or would be if she needed surgery, that part was hypothetical, she's quite healthy). If they really could get help without needing to pay back huge fines later, that would put to rest a lot of my concerns with the USA's health care. So just to make sure I'm clear, say my friend had something where she occasionally needed medical attention with a huge bill (you said $35,000 for something you needed, so I'll go with that). Say every 3 years she needed some treatment worth $35,000. Would that be doable? Or would she end up with crushing debts that she could never pay off? If not then she might be alive, but she'd be alive with a rapidly increasing loan worth hundreds of thousands.

You're not far from the truth in my case. Indeed, every so many months I have to go in for "routine maintenance." The bill varies depending on what has to be done, if anything. My point is you always find a way to afford what you need. MOST people can get insurance. It may be expensive, but again I ask, what is your health worth? For those that can't get insurance, we find other ways to pay the bill. We get good jobs/careers. We learn how to negotiate with doctors and hospitals, we build relationships with health care providers and we learn what charities (private) and government services are out there. And there are lots. You'd be surprised how generous and benevolent people can be. Of course, all this takes a lot of time and work and effort, and most people, in my experience, just want to be taken care of--throw themselves on the mercy of the state. I wasn't raised that way.

One more thing, too. You'd be amazed at how G-d provides what we need when we need it. One of the side benefits of being part of G-d's family is that you'd never let a family member go without, would you? Praise G-d, I have been the recipient of G-d's blessing through His great family on more than one occasion.

[KeilanS]

And praise God for that Marnie! A Christian should be able to survive in any economy with any degree of persecution against them. I am also very glad to hear that you are able to handle the medical bills for your condition. However, their are obviously people out there who can't afford treatment in the US, and thats who I'm worrying about. I would hope that any Christian could get the help they need, and hopefully anybody else could get aid too if necessary (if people in the US can get the required health care just like we can get it in Canada, than this argument amounts to nothing, because it works out the same anyways).