Guest shiloh357 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Aug 3 2007, 09:50 PM) The New Testament does not use the term "spiritual seed of Abraham." Paul simply says that if you are Christ's you are the seed of Abraham. The NT does not have to use the term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Jedi - Would you please keep Vickilynn's response in context of my original statement. I was speaking of the Jews and what it means for them to have faith in their Messiah Yeshua. The bigger plan is a different subject all together from what I was focusing in on, OK? nebula, Ok...but I am a just a litte confused about what original statement. I am not trying to be rude about what she said, I was just clarifing it. God bless you Vickilynn **I can't believe the circles I've had to go around with this** I had mentioned how perspective changes your entire outlook on this subject. Do you believe that a Jew who comes to faith in Jesus (Yeshua) as their Lord and Savior (or as their Messiah): 1) Is no longer a Jew, but comes into "our" faith? or 2) Becomes the Jew God intended him/her to be, coming into the fullness of the faith of their fathers? Vickilynn was replying to my trying to clarify (again) what I meant by my original post. Make sense now????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 shiloh I am simply showing the consistency of the biblical terminology of Paul. Paul simply says that if you are Christ's then are Abraham's seed. Why doesn't Paul throw in the word "spiritual?" Then do you not understand the meaning of a "spiritual metaphors" - interesting? The problem here is that Paul is not being "metaphorical" in referring to Gentile Christians as the seed of Abraham. There is no figurative devices being employed in Galatians three with respect to Gentile believers being the "seed of Abraham." The Galatian Christians belonged to Christ, and as such they are related to Abraham and become heirs of the blessing promised to Abraham by God. Gentiles were granted the full rights of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraught Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,741 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1959 Author Share Posted August 4, 2007 Jedi - Would you please keep Vickilynn's response in context of my original statement. I was speaking of the Jews and what it means for them to have faith in their Messiah Yeshua. The bigger plan is a different subject all together from what I was focusing in on, OK? nebula, Ok...but I am a just a litte confused about what original statement. I am not trying to be rude about what she said, I was just clarifing it. God bless you Vickilynn **I can't believe the circles I've had to go around with this** I had mentioned how perspective changes your entire outlook on this subject. Do you believe that a Jew who comes to faith in Jesus (Yeshua) as their Lord and Savior (or as their Messiah): 1) Is no longer a Jew, but comes into "our" faith? or 2) Becomes the Jew God intended him/her to be, coming into the fullness of the faith of their fathers? Vickilynn was replying to my trying to clarify (again) what I meant by my original post. Make sense now????????? The original 'original' post had to do with whether the Church is Israel. You came into the middle of it with a good question with a very simple answer (which of course you knew it should have). Everyone who becomes a Christian becomes a follower (a disciple) of Jesus Christ no matter which, if any, religion they start out with. I'm not convinced that a persons' customs must be abandoned and believe that this should be a personal matter if they do not go against the teachings of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2007 When 'Israel' is used in the OT does it not refer to all, jew or foreigner, slave or free? In other words when 'Israel' was used in the OT it didn't even refer to just the jews. So those who JOINED Israel even though they weren't jewish were also 'Israel'. And if those who joined Israel weren't 'Israel' along with the jews then WHAT nation were they? Did not the faith belong to both jew and forigner who made up the nation 'Israel'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 4, 2007 The original 'original' post had to do with whether the Church is Israel. You came into the middle of it with a good question with a very simple answer (which of course you knew it should have). Everyone who becomes a Christian becomes a follower (a disciple) of Jesus Christ no matter which, if any, religion they start out with. I'm not convinced that a persons' customs must be abandoned and believe that this should be a personal matter if they do not go against the teachings of Jesus. Fraught - Jedi was commenting on a post made by Vickilynn responding to a reclarification on a comment I had made. Yes, it is a sub-topic within the major topic. Would you please stick to commenting on the sub-topic as it is, a sub-topic? When a Jew becomes a believer, does he enter into a "new" faith, or does he come into the fulfillment of his faith? (i.e. does he worship a different God, or does he come into a better understanding of his God?). Or, one could ask, did the Jews who rejected Jesus (in the first century) reject their God? and thus needed to come back to receiving their God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2007 Shalom Nebula, Ahhhh yes! Maketh much more sense now! And I agree! G-d's plan has ALWAYS and still is, for the Jew to come to know His Messiah, Yeshua, the seed of Abraham. No Gods plan from the beginning was is to save all men, not just the Jews as you say. It not all about the Jews, its about God sending his only begottn Son to die for the World not just Jews. You got to see the big picture. Shalom Jedi, No, I'm sorry, you are incorrect. YOU need to understand G-d's plan as laid out in the Scriptures. JESUS says in His own words what G-d's plan is. The Jews first, THEN the Gentiles. That was/is G-d's plan. He chose Israel for His glory and The Father sent the Messiah to the Jews first. Jesus came to save the Jew first, then the Gentile. That was G-d's plan from the beginning. Please read it for yourself: Romans 1: 16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith." Matthew 10: 5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And proclaim as you go, saying,(F) 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Matthew 15: 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2007 Shalom Nebula, Ahhhh yes! Maketh much more sense now! And I agree! G-d's plan has ALWAYS and still is, for the Jew to come to know His Messiah, Yeshua, the seed of Abraham. No Gods plan from the beginning was is to save all men, not just the Jews as you say. It not all about the Jews, its about God sending his only begottn Son to die for the World not just Jews. You got to see the big picture. Where in Vickilynn's statement did she say it was God's plan just to save the Jews? You really have to work pretty hard to twist her words like that. She did not saying thing that was exclusionary. Shalom Shiloh, EXACTLY. Jedi has misread and misinterpreted the Scriptures and come back with a defensive statement that had nothing to do with what the Scriptures said. Jesus says "to the Jew first..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2007 Shalom Nebula, Ahhhh yes! Maketh much more sense now! And I agree! G-d's plan has ALWAYS and still is, for the Jew to come to know His Messiah, Yeshua, the seed of Abraham. No Gods plan from the beginning was is to save all men, not just the Jews as you say. It not all about the Jews, its about God sending his only begotten Son to die for the World not just Jews. You got to see the big picture. Where in Vickilynn's statement did she say it was God's plan just to save the Jews? You really have to work pretty hard to twist her words like that. She did not saying thing that was exclusionary. I was just clarifying her statement because the way it reads sounds like Gods plan is the save jews...period. Well, what about the rest of the world? I know she does not believe that or at least I hope she does not believe that way. Do you have a problem with my clarification or are you just out on a war path. Shalom Jedi, Shiloh is trying to correct your incorrect assertion and misunderstanding. So, your "clarification" was an error on your part that needed correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2007 Jedi - Would you please keep Vickilynn's response in context of my original statement. I was speaking of the Jews and what it means for them to have faith in their Messiah Yeshua. The bigger plan is a different subject all together from what I was focusing in on, OK? nebula, Ok...but I am a just a litte confused about what original statement. I am not trying to be rude about what she said, I was just clarifing it. God bless you Vickilynn Shalom Jedi, G-d bless you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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