patricia1 Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Vicilyn do you re read your statements of your own thread, I answer accordingly. There is no cure, if someone needs to keep taking medicine to subdue a problem it is not a cure and diabetes runs in my family and if they can stop needing insulin a get totally cured I will praise the Lord. To me a cure is when someone needs no medicine at all. I have never been into new age at all and do not wish to be...I do not and never heard of new agers casting out demons but I have heard of healings that occur that never remain,I just do not understand your inability to accept that certain things...so people who are called to deliverance ministries are what to you, not christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Vicilyn do you re read your statements of your own thread, I answer accordingly. There is no cure, if someone needs to keep taking medicine to subdue a problem it is not a cure and diabetes runs in my family and if they can stop needing insulin a get totally cured I will praise the Lord. To me a cure is when someone needs no medicine at all. I have never been into new age at all and do not wish to be...I do not and never heard of new agers casting out demons but I have heard of healings that occur that never remain,I just do not understand your inability to accept that certain things...so people who are called to deliverance ministries are what to you, not christians? Oh I see what you are saying...I cannot box your questions and answer them like you do with me ..I do not know how to do that so they may appear incomplete cos I am answering you the way I see the question??? could it be that?? You know I also do think differently and explain things as I would want to hear things explained but I am a brain injured person and get brain confuson it is called but I always reread what I write over at least three times. Takes me forever to post love ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8thNJesus Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 112 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 Vicilyn do you re read your statements of your own thread, I answer accordingly. There is no cure, if someone needs to keep taking medicine to subdue a problem it is not a cure and diabetes runs in my family and if they can stop needing insulin a get totally cured I will praise the Lord. To me a cure is when someone needs no medicine at all. I have never been into new age at all and do not wish to be...I do not and never heard of new agers casting out demons but I have heard of healings that occur that never remain,I just do not understand your inability to accept that certain things...so people who are called to deliverance ministries are what to you, not christians? Shalom Patricia, I AM a diabetic and I know the facts because I am in touch with the experts and stay up to date on the medical advances. And as far as mental illness, you can state anything you want. The truth is, going back to the OP, not all mental illness is caused by demons. That is indisputable. And as far as the word "cure", you can define it however you wish. But, as a cancer survivor, the word cure is used when there is no EVIDENCE of the disease. That is what happens when you treat a disease properly. I have no "inability" to accept the Biblical truth. That's the difference between us. You want to rely on your experience and I want to stand on Scriptural truth. And yes, New Agers DO cast out demons and they do it the name of Jesus. Please read up on it. Again, for putting words in my mouth, that is wrong. I believe people that are called to deliverance ministries are mistaken when they say that Christians can be indwelt by demons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 Vicilyn do you re read your statements of your own thread, I answer accordingly. There is no cure, if someone needs to keep taking medicine to subdue a problem it is not a cure and diabetes runs in my family and if they can stop needing insulin a get totally cured I will praise the Lord. To me a cure is when someone needs no medicine at all. I have never been into new age at all and do not wish to be...I do not and never heard of new agers casting out demons but I have heard of healings that occur that never remain,I just do not understand your inability to accept that certain things...so people who are called to deliverance ministries are what to you, not christians? Oh I see what you are saying...I cannot box your questions and answer them like you do with me ..I do not know how to do that so they may appear incomplete cos I am answering you the way I see the question??? could it be that?? You know I also do think differently and explain things as I would want to hear things explained but I am a brain injured person and get brain confuson it is called but I always reread what I write over at least three times. Takes me forever to post love ya Shalom Patricia, An easy way to put the other person's comments in a "box" is to wrap them in quotes. When you are replying, look up at the toolbar above the text box. YOu'll see the place for BOLD and some pictures. Highlight the text you want in a quote box and click on the square picture to the right of the tree picture. This will wrap the highlighted portion in quotes and place them in a box. It's easier to read. Also, you are brain-damaged? I am very sorry to hear that. And I am sorry for telling you to write differently. I was not aware of your medical condition. Please forgive me. I will try harder to understand what you are saying from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8thNJesus Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 112 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 CAN A CHRISTIAN HAVE A DEMON? When I first became involved in exorcisms, I assumed that a Christian was immune from the torment of demons. I based that assumption on the influence of other Christian leaders who convinced me of this. I had perfected the logic explaining my position: "The Holy Spirit and an evil spirit can't dwell in the same vessel." "Light and darkness cannot co-exist." "Those who cast demons out of Christians are making excuses for sin problems." I had given messages to large audiences, boldly declaring that the very idea of a Christian having a demon was heresy. I insisted that Christians claiming to have demons were making excuses for problems of carnality or personal lack of discipline; they were avoiding the tough part of growing in grace and maturing in a deeper understanding of Scripture. When I began searching the Word of God more diligently about the matter of demons influencing Christians, I discovered that the issue wasn't as conclusive as I had thought. Gradually I understood that my error was based on a narrow understanding of demonic phenomena, and a predetermined reading of Scripture. In my honest moments of contemplation, I realized that those pastors and Bible teachers who had repeatedly reinforced the "Christians can't have a demon" outlook had very little practical experience with the phenomenon. I concluded that, while doctrine is not based on experience, the lack of experiential testimony about such a crucial area of spiritual deliverance was a glaring weakness. As I began to discuss the subject with others, I learned that theological sentiments are often based on extreme examples. Almost everyone opposed to the idea of Christians having a demon could relate one or more horrific stories about exorcism sessions in which Christians were encouraged to think of their spiritual failures as having a demonic root. They were then told to vomit up demons of everything from morning sickness to nasal congestion-seriously! I had witnessed some of these deliverance sessions. Highly manipulative evangelists preyed on distraught and gullible people who were looking for a quick solution to their spiritual and physical misery. I have since learned the simple truth that when you belong to God, what Satan cannot invade is your spirit. The moment a person is born into the kingdom of God by faith in Christ (Eph. 2:8-9), the spirit is eternally reborn and belongs to God. Jesus declared in John 10:28 that no one has the power to "snatch" us out of God's hand. However, man is a tripartite being (1 Thessalonians 5:23), and there are aspects of the human condition that Satan can afflict. While he is prohibited from touching the spirit of God's saints, nothing prevents him from tormenting the body and soul-if the disobedient conduct of a Christian allows him to do so. Much confusion about this issue exists because of the use of the word possession. The term doesn't appear in the original Greek language of the New Testament. Bible scholars say those who translated the King James edition added this word in order to classify varying degrees of demonic control. More correctly, the word translated "possession" should simply be rendered "demonized," that is, under the influence of a demon. Attempting to be verbally precise about such a supernatural phenomenon is pointless. You can't take something enshrouded in a mystical context and reduce it to a paradigm of human language. That's why we must cautiously use terms associated with demons. By possession I mean that the spirit is internalized and claims certain legal rights to invade the person's body. Demonic "possession" never means a Christian's regenerated spirit has been invaded or that the demon owns the human being. It means that his or her soul or body is influenced by a demon. The demon can manifest through the host's faculties-that is, see with the eyes, speak through the vocal cords, and even subject the person to a trance state of mental oblivion. Deliverance comes when the demon inside is cast outside. What about those instances in which a demon manifests in a Christian? In most cases the demon entered before the believer's conversion to Christianity, and the evil spirit continued to control some part of the person's life because the specific occult sin was never renounced. The demon claims squatter's rights. The metaphor of what happens when territory is conquered in a war applies here. Even though the conflict may be officially ended, enemy snipers refuse to surrender, so they must be hunted down. Their right to remain may be technically voided since the territory is under new control, but that doesn't mean they leave automatically or give up easily. An offense must be mounted to enforce the terms of victory. The exorcist must diligently pursue every avenue of deliverance to be certain that every demonic influence has been conquered. CAN DEMONS PHYSICALLY AFFLICT A CHRISTIAN? To answer the question of whether a Christian can be physically afflicted, we must first explore the means by which demons influence Christians. Do Christians sin? Of course! First John 1:8-9 says we do. We cannot continue to abide in sin because of the indwelling nature of Christ. Note, however, that in Ephesians 4:23 Christians are admonished to "be renewed in the spirit of your mind." If the mind of the Christian needs renewal, then it stands to reason that when our minds are not renewed, they may be, to some degree, under the control of the ungodly forces. "Present your bodies a living sacrifice," we read in Romans 12:1. This means our bodies may not be completely sacrificed to God, and could therefore be influenced by Satan. The lack of spirituality in the life of a Christian doesn't necessarily mean he or she is possessed. But it does mean that some part of the Christian's nature is open to evil forces. In Luke 13:16, Christ cast a demon out of a 'daughter of Abraham'. It's true she wasn't living under the covenant of grace this side of the cross, but as an Old Testament devotee to God, she was spiritually protected by the best that God could offer that side of Calvary. Yet a spirit of physical infirmity demonized her. In fact, the first demon that Jesus cast out came from an apparently devout Jew in the synagogue on the Sabbath. Christ's first exorcism was in a church! The man in Luke 4:33-35 was certainly "possessed" because the demon spoke through his body. Christ told the unclean spirit to "come out of him" (Verse 35). CAN SATAN CONTROL A CHRISTIAN'S THOUGHTS AND WORDS? Let me explain how Satan can also control the thoughts and speech of a Christian. In Matthew, chapter 16, Jesus had just concluded His explanation to His disciples on the true nature of His earthly mission-that He must suffer and die (verse 21). Peter immediately spoke up in an effort to dissuade Christ from going to the cross: "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!" (verse 22). The response of Christ was abrupt and stern. "Get behind Me, Satan!" Jesus said to Peter (verse 23). I'm not suggesting that Peter was demon possessed. I am proposing that Peter, while standing in the presence of Christ, was sufficiently influenced that he literally spoke the words Satan wanted him to say. Even more astounding is the fact that earlier in verse 16 of that chapter, Peter had given the confessional statement of faith on which Christ said He would build His church! In Acts chapter 5, Ananias and Sapphira, members of the early church, lied to the apostle Peter. They had sold some possessions to give to the church, and then had second thoughts and conspired to keep back a portion for themselves. When Peter asked them what amount they had received for the sale, Ananias and Sapphira lied. What was the source of that lie? The apostle Peter said, "Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit" (verse 3). In judgment, God struck them dead. If we accept the assumption that Ananias and Sapphira experienced the new birth in Christ, then how can we explain away the fact that their hearts were filled by Satan to such an extent that they were capable of committing a sin worthy of such abrupt and severe divine judgment? Satan can, in some instances, take over a Christian's mind and speak through his lips. Demons are in certain instances able to place Christians in a trance state so that the unclean spirit controls psychomotor functions and conscious mental processes. I have dealt with scores of cases with people who were undeniably followers of Christ and yet demons spoke through them and even violently attacked me. It is disingenuous to suggest that they somehow lost their salvation long enough to let a demon in and then thereafter resumed their Christian walk. If Satan can control our speech when we are disobedient and fill our hearts with evil when we are rebellious, he may be able to do a lot more to Christians than we would like to admit. What scriptural lessons can we learn from this startling information? A Christian can be born again and have spiritual victory over the original Adamic sin that eternally separates mankind from God and still have besetting sins (Hebrews 12:1). Uncontrolled thoughts, resentment, anger, and bitterness are some examples. Salvation must not be confused with sanctification. The Holy Spirit's continuing work of grace is a progressive act of God's desire to draw us closer to Him. Those who, yet saved, resist this scriptural plea (1 Thessalonians 4:3) may find they have harbored demonic pockets of activity from their pre-conversion lives. This message needs a greater emphasis in our churches so that we may set free any of our brothers and sisters in Christ who are suffering the "hangover" of Satan's influence from their former lives of sin. As kindly as I can say it, those who underestimate what Christians can suffer at the hand of Satan are doing a disservice to the body of Christ. They are consigning sincere Christians to a life of continued demonic influence and causing needless suffering in the lives of those whom the Lord wants to set free. Let no one misunderstand me. A Christian cannot be demonized if by "possession" you mean "ownership." The child of God is owned by the Lord. But I will testify that a Christian can be severely influenced by demons and even be inhabited by them. I will also do all that I can in Jesus' name to see that those who are "heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:17) will experience the hope of freedom from demonic bondage. Written by Bob Larson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2007 Can A Christian Be Demon-Possessed? Though demons can enter and possess any unbeliever, they cannot enter into the body of those who belong to the Lord. There are a number of reasons why this is so. Greater Is He The Bible says that the one who indwells believers is greater than the one who is in the world. You are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world (1 John 4:4). Delivered Those who have trusted Christ have been delivered from the possibility of demonic possession. Paul wrote. in which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient (Ephesians 2:2). The believers do not live any more under their authority. He has rescued us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins (Colossians 1:13,14). Nothing In Common Believers have nothing in common with darkness or Satan. The Holy Spirit, and a demonic spirit, cannot co-exist in the same person. And what agreement has Christ with Belial? or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? (2 Corinthians 6:15). No Biblical Example Finally, there is no example in Scripture of a believer in Jesus Christ being demon-possessed. All cases of demonic possession were with those who were unbelievers. Passages In Support? Sometimes the following passages are cited as support of believers being possessed. Paul ordered the church of Corinth to deliver a believer over to Satan. to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 5:5). There is no evidence that the person whom Paul delivered over to Satan became demon-possessed. Two Others The Bible speaks of two other individuals who were also delivered over to Satan. of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I delivered unto Satan, that they might be taught not to blaspheme (1 Timothy 1:20). As is the case with the believer in Corinth, there is no indication that either of these men were ever demon-possessed. People Taken Captive Another passage speaks of people being taken captive by the Devil. and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will (2 Timothy 2:26). The people under discussion in this context are not believers. Consequently there is no Scriptural support for the idea that Christians can become demon-possessed. What About Stories Of Believers And Demons? If this is the case, then what about the stories that circulate with respect to believers and demon-possession. Examples are provided of believers who exhibit symptoms of demon possession. When people give examples of believers being possessed, there are a number of questions that immediately arise, "Were these victims of demon possession really believers?" "Were they actually possessed with a demon, or is there another possible explanation for their behavior?" Since the Bible gives no support that a believer can be possessed by a demon, some other explanation must be in order. Permanent Indwelling Of Holy Spirit The issue is clear. It is not whether a professing Christian can be demon-possessed, but rather can a genuine, "born again" Christian become demon-possessed? The Bible teaches that those who have trusted Christ are permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit. In Him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in Him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit; this is the pledge of our inheritance toward redemption as God's own people, to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:13,14). New Creation Believers are a new creation in Christ. So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17). Body Temple Of Holy Spirit The body of the believer is now a temple of the Holy Spirit. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? and you are not your own (1 Corinthians 6:19). Cannot Separate The Believer From The Lord The Bible says that such evil powers cannot separate the believer from the love of God. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:38,39). Specially mentioned are the angels and principalities - angelic orders. Not even they can separate the believer from the love of God. All of these things would make demon-possession an impossibility for the believer. Spiritual Balance Needed Satan and demons are defeated foes, yet they are still very active in this world, causing much harm. Though they cannot possess and control a believer, they can cause a number of problems. Summary The Scripture does not teach that a Christian can be possessed by a demon. The believer is "in Christ,"- one of His. Every example in the Bible of a person being demon-possessed concerns an unbeliever - there are no examples of believers being possessed. Furthermore, we must be careful not to rely on stories of believers and demon-possession - many other explanations are possible. The Christian, who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, need not fear demon possession. Yet, demons do attack believers in various ways. Therefore, it would be wrong to say that they cannot have any affect on the Christian. Don Stewart http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/nbi/61.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleswings Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 613 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1959 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I have always thought this scripture very interesting, 2 Chronicles 16;12 And in the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa became diseased in his feet, and his malady was severe; yet in his disease he did not seek the Lord but the physicians....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Vicilyn do you re read your statements of your own thread, I answer accordingly. There is no cure, if someone needs to keep taking medicine to subdue a problem it is not a cure and diabetes runs in my family and if they can stop needing insulin a get totally cured I will praise the Lord. To me a cure is when someone needs no medicine at all. I have never been into new age at all and do not wish to be...I do not and never heard of new agers casting out demons but I have heard of healings that occur that never remain,I just do not understand your inability to accept that certain things...so people who are called to deliverance ministries are what to you, not christians? Oh I see what you are saying...I cannot box your questions and answer them like you do with me ..I do not know how to do that so they may appear incomplete cos I am answering you the way I see the question??? could it be that?? You know I also do think differently and explain things as I would want to hear things explained but I am a brain injured person and get brain confuson it is called but I always reread what I write over at least three times. Takes me forever to post love ya Shalom Patricia, When you are replying, look up at the toolbar above the text box. YOu'll see the place for BOLD and some pictures. Highlight the text you want in a quote box and click on the square picture to the right of the tree picture. This will wrap the highlighted portion in quotes and place them in a box. It's easier to read. Also, you are brain-damaged? I am very sorry to hear that. And I am sorry for telling you to write differently. I was not aware of your medical condition. Please forgive me. I will try harder to understand what you are saying from now on. I am laughing now cos i think i lost your instructions.. I will check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted August 20, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Vicilyn do you re read your statements of your own thread, I answer accordingly. There is no cure, if someone needs to keep taking medicine to subdue a problem it is not a cure and diabetes runs in my family and if they can stop needing insulin a get totally cured I will praise the Lord. To me a cure is when someone needs no medicine at all. I have never been into new age at all and do not wish to be...I do not and never heard of new agers casting out demons but I have heard of healings that occur that never remain,I just do not understand your inability to accept that certain things...so people who are called to deliverance ministries are what to you, not christians? Oh I see what you are saying...I cannot box your questions and answer them like you do with me ..I do not know how to do that so they may appear incomplete cos I am answering you the way I see the question??? could it be that?? You know I also do think differently and explain things as I would want to hear things explained but I am a brain injured person and get brain confuson it is called but I always reread what I write over at least three times. Takes me forever to post love ya Shalom Patricia, When you are replying, look up at the toolbar above the text box. YOu'll see the place for BOLD and some pictures. Highlight the text you want in a quote box and click on the square picture to the right of the tree picture. This will wrap the highlighted portion in quotes and place them in a box. It's easier to read. Also, you are brain-damaged? I am very sorry to hear that. And I am sorry for telling you to write differently. I was not aware of your medical condition. Please forgive me. I will try harder to understand what you are saying from now on. I am laughing now cos i think i lost your instructions.. I will check it out! now I am hysterical laughing i cannot figure it out but give me time. It will happen. I am sorry I think I knocked something off here. Vicki that is what I believe cure is. As a cancer survivor you are cancer free. To me you are cured. Diabetes and not having enough insuli they are much better advanced today since the percentages are high for the future of people who may become diabetis. I am Lactose intolerant...very severe My body stopped producing lactase. I know some people who have been completely healed and can have any milk product they want...I need to take ultra lactaid pills at least three just to have a bit of chees. This prevents me from being sick but is not a cure. . Yes I have lost my brains...and then after giving Birth which was a miracle .., I think my mind I was not suppossed to live and then lived and then suppossed to be a vegetable, paralyzed on one side, mostly restored to me but that is what I mean in other post when I say I had to lose my life to gain it. There is a lot of residual that others do not see. My fingertips are insensitive, I may even write backwards if I do not concetrate. Here in the of new age..we have the false laying on of hands...healing by crystals and eating raw minerals, witchcraft and all kinds of mysticism...most of them cannot even utter Jesus' name. People will not come anymore due to the overwhelming oppression and severe rebuttals thry get. to pray that is. But I am sure some one will notify me of that one moving on in here to. Thanks for letting me know. I will keep trying that quotation thing. thank-you love in christ sister patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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