None Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1908 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Women throughout history have been the most oppressed and abused group. Female oppression has even surpassed the oppression of slaves and races thus making females the lowest immovable rung on every hierarchical ladder in history. Even today the abuses are staggering and unmentionable in some societies. If is unfortunate when Christian history has embraced such oppressions. The witch-hunts are an unmemorable blotch on Catholic history. Today I personally consider the complementarian mantra of "equal but different" to be another blotch on Christian history. While some have taken emphasis on the idea of equality, too many have taken the emphasis on difference. The problem with stating that one group is equal in value to another group but because of inherent differences must always be subordinated (restricted in roles) is that subordination by reason of unchangeable factors (race, color, sex) is actually invalidating any statement of equality. When Jesus said, "the greatest of you shall be the least in the kingdom of Heaven and the least shall be the greatest.", what exactly did He mean by that? What about the fact that He took the position of servant and washed His men's feet, even though it was His feet that should have been washed by them? Would it not be a horrible surprise for so many if the ones serving them on earth will be their permanent masters in Heaven? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Women throughout history have been the most oppressed and abused group. Female oppression has even surpassed the oppression of slaves and races thus making females the lowest immovable rung on every hierarchical ladder in history. Even today the abuses are staggering and unmentionable in some societies. If is unfortunate when Christian history has embraced such oppressions. The witch-hunts are an unmemorable blotch on Catholic history. Today I personally consider the complementarian mantra of "equal but different" to be another blotch on Christian history. While some have taken emphasis on the idea of equality, too many have taken the emphasis on difference. The problem with stating that one group is equal in value to another group but because of inherent differences must always be subordinated (restricted in roles) is that subordination by reason of unchangeable factors (race, color, sex) is actually invalidating any statement of equality. When Jesus said, "the greatest of you shall be the least in the kingdom of Heaven and the least shall be the greatest.", what exactly did He mean by that? What about the fact that He took the position of servant and washed His men's feet, even though it was His feet that should have been washed by them? Would it not be a horrible surprise for so many if the ones serving them on earth will be their permanent masters in Heaven? Just a thought. Interesting thoughts. First that is somewhat of a frightening thought a. because I am a leader in my church b. because being a permanent servant and experiencing the modern term "glass ceiling" firsthand, does not sound appealing. Secondly, I really believe in Christ's admonition to the thunder brothers..... the greatest is the servant of all. And also Christ's admontion that only one is master/teacher, but we all are brethren. Not only did Christ take the position of servant but He took the job of the female servants. This had to have a dramatic effect on those watching. Well, it did didn't it. Who was it that got all huffy about Christ washing his feet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted August 11, 2007 The other thread was closed because of the post by Oops that has been quoted to start this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted August 11, 2007 The other thread was closed because of the post by Oops that has been quoted to start this thread. Perhaps we can discuss it from a different angle and not relate it to women being silent in churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 11, 2007 The other thread was closed because of the post by Oops that has been quoted to start this thread. Not really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
None Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1908 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 Women throughout history have been the most oppressed and abused group. Female oppression has even surpassed the oppression of slaves and races thus making females the lowest immovable rung on every hierarchical ladder in history. Even today the abuses are staggering and unmentionable in some societies. If is unfortunate when Christian history has embraced such oppressions. The witch-hunts are an unmemorable blotch on Catholic history. Today I personally consider the complementarian mantra of "equal but different" to be another blotch on Christian history. While some have taken emphasis on the idea of equality, too many have taken the emphasis on difference. The problem with stating that one group is equal in value to another group but because of inherent differences must always be subordinated (restricted in roles) is that subordination by reason of unchangeable factors (race, color, sex) is actually invalidating any statement of equality. When Jesus said, "the greatest of you shall be the least in the kingdom of Heaven and the least shall be the greatest.", what exactly did He mean by that? What about the fact that He took the position of servant and washed His men's feet, even though it was His feet that should have been washed by them? Would it not be a horrible surprise for so many if the ones serving them on earth will be their permanent masters in Heaven? Just a thought. Interesting thoughts. First that is somewhat of a frightening thought a. because I am a leader in my church b. because being a permanent servant and experiencing the modern term "glass ceiling" firsthand, does not sound appealing. Secondly, I really believe in Christ's admonition to the thunder brothers..... the greatest is the servant of all. And also Christ's admonition that only one is master/teacher, but we all are brethren. Not only did Christ take the position of servant but He took the job of the female servants. This had to have a dramatic effect on those watching. Well, it did didn't it. Who was it that got all huffy about Christ washing his feet..... I no more believe that women will be "ruling" men than men will have a virgin harem when they get to Heaven and will be served by them, eternally... My point was to shed light on ridiculous ideas in modern religions. I don't believe your post is what prompted the closure of the other thread, btw. There were others much more heated and ugly. Hopefully this will stay friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Well lets just say it was the post that broke the moderators back so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Women throughout history have been the most oppressed and abused group. Female oppression has even surpassed the oppression of slaves and races thus making females the lowest immovable rung on every hierarchical ladder in history. Even today the abuses are staggering and unmentionable in some societies. If is unfortunate when Christian history has embraced such oppressions. The witch-hunts are an unmemorable blotch on Catholic history. Today I personally consider the complementarian mantra of "equal but different" to be another blotch on Christian history. While some have taken emphasis on the idea of equality, too many have taken the emphasis on difference. The problem with stating that one group is equal in value to another group but because of inherent differences must always be subordinated (restricted in roles) is that subordination by reason of unchangeable factors (race, color, sex) is actually invalidating any statement of equality. When Jesus said, "the greatest of you shall be the least in the kingdom of Heaven and the least shall be the greatest.", what exactly did He mean by that? What about the fact that He took the position of servant and washed His men's feet, even though it was His feet that should have been washed by them? Would it not be a horrible surprise for so many if the ones serving them on earth will be their permanent masters in Heaven? Just a thought. Interesting thoughts. First that is somewhat of a frightening thought a. because I am a leader in my church b. because being a permanent servant and experiencing the modern term "glass ceiling" firsthand, does not sound appealing. Secondly, I really believe in Christ's admonition to the thunder brothers..... the greatest is the servant of all. And also Christ's admonition that only one is master/teacher, but we all are brethren. Not only did Christ take the position of servant but He took the job of the female servants. This had to have a dramatic effect on those watching. Well, it did didn't it. Who was it that got all huffy about Christ washing his feet..... I no more believe that women will be "ruling" men than men will have a virgin harem when they get to Heaven and will be served by them, eternally... My point was to shed light on ridiculous ideas in modern religions. I don't believe your post is what prompted the closure of the other thread, btw. There were others much more heated and ugly. Hopefully this will stay friendly. LOL I never could wrap my mind around the virgin harem thing. How could these men actually believe that. That is the real mystery. As for who get's to rule whom, I don't think any group will get to rule any other group in heaven (including Jews having superior status to Gentiles). Christ's light will illuminate all and there will be perfect peace. And thank you. I was pretty surprised that it came after my post as I had absolutely no "heat" in my head about it at all. I was just speaking what I saw. It likely was the last straw in someones mind though. Sometimes it is truly difficult for text only communications to accurately comprehend the tone behind the words, especially when your own tone get's heated. FWIW I am one of those people that very very rarely ever get's heated, even when my words and observations are pointed or narrowing a subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
None Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1908 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 Jesus did make that point about greatest and least after the disciples were arguing over their places in Heaven. I think there will be an order but not what people expect from an earth's viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted August 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Jesus did make that point about greatest and least after the disciples were arguing over their places in Heaven. I think there will be an order but not what people expect from an earth's viewpoint. That I agree with 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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