Guest yod Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 . I say let him enjoy his wife and his baby and a decent life. He deserves it as much as any of us And I say the army should take him off the battlefield and have him washing dishes and cleaning latrines. If he's chicken or "conscienceous" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 The Bible teaches that we are to obey the laws of our government. Even if it goes against your moral convictions??? That's compromise, not conviction. except where God expressly forbids. if our government were to require us to have sexual rites of passage, which are common (or at least were common) in many parts of the world, we would not be bound to obey that. however, God does NOT forbid war, and does support governments having a military made up of citizens. so that argument can't be used. (Even if it goes against your moral convictions??? That's compromise, not conviction.) signing up for the military is VOLUNTARY. it is not required by law. however, it is law that volunteering yourself for military duty requires you to honor your commitment. i hardly see how honoring your commitment could be compromising God's word regarding morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 It seems some here would obey the government to the point of accepting the mark. That is just absurd. We are to obey all lawful commandments of our governments. Mercy does not triumph over justice. Mercy and justice are two wings of the same bird. We are not talking about judgement, we are talking about justice. Mercy without justice is anarchy. Justice without mercy is trannical. You must have both. The punishment should fit the crime, and joining the Quakers is not going to prevent it, only delay it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted February 20, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2004 IMverystrongO, this guy is cowardly scum. He wanted to rape the country (get whatever he could get) and not have to give anything back. R-A-P-E. As a mother of a dedicated service member, actually this guy is worse than cowardly scum. How would God treat him? Please. He'd tell him he signed up for selfish motives and than ran when it didn't suit those motives. And that there is forgiveness IF he repents of selfish, self centered ways, and his total lack of sense of responsibility for his actions. He is an affront to all who have the CALL to military service everywhere. I sure wish I knew why you are so interested in such American problems and issues, idolsmasher. Was this just another avenue to bash America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted February 20, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2004 It's not justice to do something you are convinced is morally wrong, it's cowardice. Standing for your convictions in the matter is the only justice. Duh. He lived his whole life and never realized that the military, uh, fights? He only heard about all those benefits, huh? Scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted February 20, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2004 If he's chicken or "conscienceous" Yeah, he's "consienceous" alright. Consienceous about HIMSELF. Somehow, he fails to see his responsibility to the obligations he willingly signed up for. Oh, I forgot. Those great benefits didn't turn out to be what he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 It's not justice to do something you are convinced is morally wrong, it's cowardice. Standing for your convictions in the matter is the only justice. Duh. He lived his whole life and never realized that the military, uh, fights? He only heard about all those benefits, huh? Scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 It's not justice to do something you are convinced is morally wrong, it's cowardice. Standing for your convictions in the matter is the only justice. Duh. He lived his whole life and never realized that the military, uh, fights? He only heard about all those benefits, huh? Scum. He lived his whole life and never realized that the military, uh, fights? He only heard about all those benefits, huh? Well that's what I mean about recruiting tactics. They lure and entice people to join by telling them all the great things the army will do for them and all the fun it will be and a lot of people figure that in peace time they can get an education and job training and all the other benefits without having to actually do things they will later regret. Then they find out they've been hornswaggled and they're shipped off to some foreign country to kill or die. I agree the guy shouldn't have joined in the first place, he made a mistake, but he may have been puposely lured and sort of tricked into it. If you can join voluntarily you should be able to quit voluntarily too. I mean, what is that, the government owns these guys because they signed their name to a piece of paper? To me THAT is justice without mercy, which is unjust! i hardly see how honoring your commitment could be compromising God's word regarding morality. It would if it causes you to compromise your morals and convictions. Mercy without justice is anarchy. But isn't that exactly what salvation is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasangel Posted February 20, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/27/1959 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I agree that he did not join the Quakers because of conviction. I myself am Mennonite. I was not born a Mennonite but came to the faith only after many years of disillusionment. I served in the Navy and this person claiming to be a conscious objector only objects when it suits his needs. Everyone knows that the Army has a job to do and its killing. Same with the Marines. For him to claim he was misled is ridiculus. There have been enough war films done for him to know better and wars fought. We must obey the law. God himself tells us to. And yes there are those who truly have reservations about serving in the Armed forces. They truly have a conviction about not killing or harming their fellow man. This guy isn't like that. He is a coward. He wants something for nothing. And yes recruiters have quotas to fill. That is their job. But they usually restrict their exaggerations to things like where you may get an assignment to or a school you want etc. Even recruiters have rules to follow. They cannot lie outright to you and anything you get "promised" should be in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Apparently he had applied for some kind of status that would allow him to be an objector but still serve in the military. He was later shipped off to Afghanistan and because his application was being processed he served in a non combat role and then he was told his application had gotten lost. When he came back to the States he was then assigned some kind of office job where lo and behold, his file turned up with his application. He was later turned down and that is why he decided to come to Canada with his family. He was willing to serve his time in the military and went the legal route to have his objections considered, it's not like he didn't try to work it out. Coming to Canada was his last option, not his first. By the way, he claimed to be a Buddhist which I would assume is also a religion that promotes non violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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