Baptism for the dead?

[Guest]

This means that we have to believe and follow ALL the scriptures. Not just what we want to.

Amen! Amen! Amen!

I looked and I looked and I pondered and I prayed.

This is almost too wonderful to see!

BAPTIZE

Function: verb

Inflected Form(s): bap

[EricH]

Baptism brings us from being dead to Christ to being alive in Christ. The argument in this verse is this. What good is it to be baptized if we are going to remain dead IE To continue to live a life of unrepented sin which means the baptizee would still be dead to Christ even after baptism which would be wasted effort.

HUH? Salvation brings us alive in christ not baptism. You can be baptized all day long and all you will get is wet, it does nothing to save us from our sins!

Then please explain this verse -

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What does repent consist of? First of all, repent is a synechdoche that is a word used as teh sum of all the parts. REpent includes, salvation, and turning away from sin. Then you can be baptized because your sins have been cleaned away BY THE BLOOD, not the baptism.

We are baptized FOR the remission of sins. Remit means to take away.

water doesn't clean sin away, christs blood did that. To say that baptizm washes your sins away says that Christs sacrifice ment nothing!

Romans 6:3-8 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

This also supports that Baptizm is representative/symbolism, of what we do. IT doesn't support that baptizm washes away sins!

These verses say that the body of sin is destroyed and we are freed from sin.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

This says that those who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Baptism by fire not by water.

This sounds like a lot more than just getting wet. You say that people who get baptized just get wet, but the bible says that those who get baptized get the remission of sins, are buried and raised with Christ, have the body of sin destroyed, is freed from sin, and have put on Christ.

I don't know about you, but I would rather believe the bible.

Sorry but yeah if you get baptised without salvation all you do is get wet. Baptism cannot save you! It cannot do anything for you. All it is is a outward sign of a inner change when it is done.

All sin is paid for already. It has been paid for, for over 2000 year. All that one has to do is be saved and its covered in the blood. Baptism doesn't wash sin away. has nothing to do with washing of sin.

I don't know about you, but i would rather believe christ, and put my trust in him, have his blood wash my sins away, than i would in getting dunked in a pool of water.

I have heard all of this before and it is just another way to justify away parts of the bible to not mean what they do.

That accusation cuts both ways. People, not matter what positions they take on issues, accuse those on the other side of this

[Massorite]

Baptism brings us from being dead to Christ to being alive in Christ. The argument in this verse is this. What good is it to be baptized if we are going to remain dead IE To continue to live a life of unrepented sin which means the baptizee would still be dead to Christ even after baptism which would be wasted effort.

HUH? Salvation brings us alive in Christ not baptism. You can be baptized all day long and all you will get is wet, it does nothing to save us from our sins!

That is true. You can also be saved all day long but with the follow through of baptism ones soul never gets cleansed of old sin. Committing ones life to Christ is only the first step down the road to salvation. The next step is to begin to obey Christ and Christ tells us to be baptized after we except Him as our Lord and Saviour. It is my belief that the Holy Spirit will not nor can it inhabit a soul which is filled with the ugly dirtiness of sin and it is only after we are cleansed that we can feel alive in Christ. When I was saved it wasn't until after I came up out of that water that I felt the presents of Christ within me and it hit me like a tone of bricks.

Obedience is where it is at. One is no good without the other. After recieving Christ if one refuses to be baptized it is a sin of pride.

Holy Moly

The water represants the Blood of Christ. If baptism does nothing what is it good for and why did Christ command it?

[Massorite]

Baptism brings us from being dead to Christ to being alive in Christ. The argument in this verse is this. What good is it to be baptized if we are going to remain dead IE To continue to live a life of unrepented sin which means the baptizee would still be dead to Christ even after baptism which would be wasted effort.

HUH? Salvation brings us alive in Christ not baptism. You can be baptized all day long and all you will get is wet, it does nothing to save us from our sins!

That is true. You can also be saved all day long but with the follow through of baptism ones soul never gets cleansed of old sin. Committing ones life to Christ is only the first step down the road to salvation. The next step is to begin to obey Christ and Christ tells us to be baptized after we except Him as our Lord and Saviour. It is my belief that the Holy Spirit will not nor can it inhabit a soul which is filled with the ugly dirtiness of sin and it is only after we are cleansed that we can feel alive in Christ. When I was saved it wasn't until after I came up out of that water that I felt the presents of Christ within me and it hit me like a tone of bricks.

Obedience is where it is at. One is no good without the other. After recieving Christ if one refuses to be baptized it is a sin of pride.

Holy Moly

The water represants the Blood of Christ. If baptism does nothing what is it good for and why did Christ command it?

What does your name mean?

[Eliyahuw]

"Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" (Romans 3:25)

Wow!

These scriptures tell me it is belief in the Blood shed at Calvary that saves me.

I'm baptized when God covers me with The Blood of The Lamb.

I'm baptized or purified and cleansed spiritually by the covering of The Blood of The Lamb, of Jesus!

I'm baptized when I'm given God's Name!

Salvation appears to me to boil down to Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!

I need to only say "Yes Lord And Amen!"

Do I understand it all? Am I raptured? Indeed not!

AMEN AND AMEN!!! You hit it on the head. Were baptized the moment were saved by his blood.

[Eliyahuw]

Holy Moly

The water represants the Blood of Christ. If baptism does nothing what is it good for and why did Christ command it?

Water baptism is a symbolism of a outward sign of a inward change. Its symbolic like communion is when you eat the wafer as bread and drink wine which represent the body and blood of christ. The wine and bread don't turn into blood and flesh, and baptism doesn't save or wash sins away.

[EricH]

Holy Moly

The water represants the Blood of Christ. If baptism does nothing what is it good for and why did Christ command it?

Water baptism is a symbolism of a outward sign of a inward change. Its symbolic like communion is when you eat the wafer as bread and drink wine which represent the body and blood of christ. The wine and bread don't turn into blood and flesh, and baptism doesn't save or wash sins away.

We have proven by scripture that it does and you are still going to say that it doesn't.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How can you say that baptism doesn't save or wash away sins when Christ says it saves and Peter says it is for the remission of sins?

If you had "proven it" people would not be holding the opposite position. Obviously people have not been convinced by your case, so It has not been proven to everyone's satisfaction

[Guest]

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God And Father Of All, Who Is Above All, And Through All, And In You All.

I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Ephesians 4:1-7

Be Blessed Beloved Of The LORD OF LORDS

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[EricH]

Holy Moly

The water represants the Blood of Christ. If baptism does nothing what is it good for and why did Christ command it?

Water baptism is a symbolism of a outward sign of a inward change. Its symbolic like communion is when you eat the wafer as bread and drink wine which represent the body and blood of christ. The wine and bread don't turn into blood and flesh, and baptism doesn't save or wash sins away.

We have proven by scripture that it does and you are still going to say that it doesn't.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How can you say that baptism doesn't save or wash away sins when Christ says it saves and Peter says it is for the remission of sins?

If you have "proven it" people wuld not be holding the opposite position. obviously people have not been convinced by your case, so It has not been proven to everyone's satisfaction

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink. In all of my time of teaching others you would not believe how many people would refuse to believe scripture even though they read it for themselves. People have actually pointed to the scripture they read out of the bible and said they did not believe it even though they considered themselves to be Christians.

Just because people refuse to believe or accept something does not make what was said wrong.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

If people refuse to believe the scriptures of Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 does that make them without effect? I can prove by scripture the things that I did, but if people refuse to believe or accept does that make it without effect? Just because people oppose what is said does not make what was said without effect. People opposed Christ and the Apostles, but what they said was truth whether people opposed it or not.

But you are not Christ. Nor are you one of His apostles (nor am I). You are a regular guy like the rest of us presenting your view of what the scriptures teach. The danger of proof texting (like you are doing here) is that it does not address all the passages that speak to a subject. For a theology to be biblical, it must take into account all of the passages that speak to that subject, and then integrate them in a way that is faithful to the text.

Clearly your case is not open and shut. This is a matter of theology that has been debated ad nuaseum. It is not that people are disbelieving the passages you cite. They are integrating them with the other passages that teach on salvation in a manner different than you are. For the discussion to be truly meaningful, people on both sides need to address all of the passages in a menaingful way (even those that give them discomfort).

[one of peace]

Gods always want blood sacrifices