KeilanS Posted September 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,763 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/23/1990 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Well, I read over the Sermon on the Mount yesterday. I was confused by a few things, and was wondering if someone could clear it up for me. Matthew 5 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. How does this fit in with "There is no one righteous" and the idea of salvation by faith? The same thing with verse 22 (Saying that those who show contempt to their brothers are in danger of hell). I thought our works did not bring about our salvation, but rather our faith. Matthew 5 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Being perfect is obviously impossible while on earth, did Jesus mean "strive to be perfect"? Matthew 7 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' What does this mean? I know that performing miracles in the name of Jesus alone isn't enough, but wouldn't someone doing these things need to truly have faith that they are saved by Jesus? Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Davies Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Well, I read over the Sermon on the Mount yesterday. I was confused by a few things, and was wondering if someone could clear it up for me. Matthew 5 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. How does this fit in with "There is no one righteous" and the idea of salvation by faith? The same thing with verse 22 (Saying that those who show contempt to their brothers are in danger of hell). I thought our works did not bring about our salvation, but rather our faith. Matthew 5 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Being perfect is obviously impossible while on earth, did Jesus mean "strive to be perfect"? Matthew 7 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' What does this mean? I know that performing miracles in the name of Jesus alone isn't enough, but wouldn't someone doing these things need to truly have faith that they are saved by Jesus? Thanks everyone. I'm not a theologian, but this is my take: Question 1. The Pharisees were righteous by works, to enter the Kingdom, your righteousness has to be by faith. Question 2. Why to you assume perfection is impossible on earth? Eph. 4:11-13 describes the purpose of the five-fold ministry which is to bring us to the "measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" as a body and therefore individually as members of His body. In the Lord's prayer we pray "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven". Do we mean that? Did Jesus want us to believe that it was possible? Yes! I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me! Remember. we as His kings and priests are going to rule and reign on earth with Jesus (Rev 5:10). Question 3. This is a relationship issue. The gifts of the Spirit are given and God's gifts are "without repentence". Apparently, according to this scripture, someone can operate in the gifts of the Spirit and not have a right relationship with the Lord. Perhaps their motive is self-promoting and not out of love for the body of Christ which according to I Cor 13 is the more excellent way to operate in the gifts. The gifts operate by faith and faith works by love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeilanS Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,763 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/23/1990 Author Share Posted September 14, 2007 Okay, that makes things a bit more clear. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2007 The difference between the Pharisee and Noah, was true righteousness, by faith, to believe unto obedience to what God told them. The Pharisee were in no way righteous, as they DID NOT practice what they preached. Jesus' constant rebuke to them was their hypocrisy. So, to surpass the Pharisees, one must believe unto obedience to the Lord, rather than practice hypocrisy. Noah believed God and did what He said. Noah found grace in the sight of God because of it. Your faith must have works, because a faith without works is "dead". Genesis 6:9 This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2007 There will be many deceptive works in the last days, of the spirit of the anti-christ. And just because one professes with their lips, doesn't mean they belong to the Lord. Jesus told them: Mark 7:6 He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 278 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1962 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Q1 -- Actually the Pharisees were not very "righteous"; they were religiously legalistic with an outward piety but and inward wickedness, Mt. 23. The Sermon on the mount is about INWARD Piety. For example, concerning vows, the Pharisees had developed a whole system of rules concerning "vows" that enabled them to be deceptive. They could make a "vow" but if they used certain wording the vow did not count and when they did not fulfill what they had "vowed" they had not sinned against God. Jesus however says to set such deception aside and be a person of your word. Jesus is concerned about our inward Piety, us having a character of inward holiness to the Lord. This righteousness is far greater than a legalistic religeous "righteousness." Actually, Mt.5.20 serves as a pivot in the Sermon on the mount. Before that verse Jesus speaks generally to everyone; and after vs.20 Jesus focuses almost exclusively on countering the errat wicked twisted evil teachings and attitudes of the Pharisees, the largest and most influencial religious social group in 1st century Judaism. If you ever want to study what they taught you can read the Mishnah or Talmud. If you can wade through the dry boring legalistic debates you can get an idea of why Jesus was so upset at them and their teachings. Blessings, Sherman Context, Context, Context!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 278 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1962 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Q 2. "Be perfect" I believe that much of what Jesus said was meant to be motivational, as in helping us to realign our goals. Our Goal should be to be like Jesus, whole, complete, without fault, joyful, peaceful, compassionate, merciful, kind, loving, gentle, holy to the Lord, righteous. This is our "Goal". Jesus did not speak judgementally, condemning us because we are not "perfect", but spoke lovingly and motivationally encouraging us to hunger for righteousness!!!! The foundation of the sermon on the mount is the Beattitudes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 278 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1962 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Q3. "miracles" Again, the Pharisees claimed to do good things. In fact, they did do good things--usually with great fanfare because they wanted the acclaim of others. Using the inherent power in the Word of God, in the Name of Jesus, even demons can be cast out, apparently seperate from the "faith" or righteousness of the "minister". The point of the passage was to encourage us to have a personal relationship with Jesus, not just a bunch of religious acts or lifestyle. The Hebraic concept for "knowing" someone spoke of intimacy, a personal intimacy. This comes through being born of the Spirit, it is a reality to live in, not a theory or a certain set of beliefs or doctrines, but an experiential reality. One knows that they are "in Christ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Q3. "miracles" Again, the Pharisees claimed to do good things. In fact, they did do good things--usually with great fanfare because they wanted the acclaim of others. Using the inherent power in the Word of God, in the Name of Jesus, even demons can be cast out, apparently seperate from the "faith" or righteousness of the "minister". The point of the passage was to encourage us to have a personal relationship with Jesus, not just a bunch of religious acts or lifestyle. The Hebraic concept for "knowing" someone spoke of intimacy, a personal intimacy. This comes through being born of the Spirit, it is a reality to live in, not a theory or a certain set of beliefs or doctrines, but an experiential reality. One knows that they are "in Christ". Thats why I call them be-attitudes We are seeing also Jesus talking to all those who follow Him. There are people out here who are self-serving and want the glory for themselves, some decieved in thinking otherwise and others who deliberatly want to look good... Christianity is also a business that pays off well so some are in it for the business. Others follow the signs with very little relationship as mentioned above. So in retrospect not everyone who says Lord Lord are not christians in their heart!!! patricia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeilanS Posted September 14, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,763 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/23/1990 Author Share Posted September 14, 2007 Many thanks to everyone who answered. It makes a lot more sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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