Question for all you Christians

[Rumple]

So what does Ehrenkreuz mean?

its a Medal of Honor in Germany, if I remember correctly.

You do remember correctly. Handed out during the Nazi era of Third Reich to citizens who displayed great courage/contributed strongly to the war effort.

Oh yes, the Iron Cross! So you are identifying yourself with one of the highest honors that the Nazis awarded. The Nazis, who exterminated the Jews, persecuted Christians, subscribed to the pagan philosophies of the Aryian cultures; what's up with that?

This an extremely unfair attack with no factual basis. The man may disagree with the basics of Christianity, but he still deserves to be treated as Jesus would treat him.

[Rumple]

First, None of this "God's Word is final" buisness, please. I'm sure that's fine when you're at church, but you sound rather pretentious from a non-believer's POV

Please accept my apologies. I forgot where I was when I read your questions and I did not bother to look at your information. Forgive me for being so harsh in my statement, for I thought I was discussing with another believer.

I know its up to you, but I don't think you have anything to apologize for OneLight!

And where is charity?

"Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things." I Cor 13:4-7

[Rumple]

First, None of this "God's Word is final" buisness, please. I'm sure that's fine when you're at church, but you sound rather pretentious from a non-believer's POV

Please accept my apologies. I forgot where I was when I read your questions and I did not bother to look at your information. Forgive me for being so harsh in my statement, for I thought I was discussing with another believer.

I know its up to you, but I don't think you have anything to apologize for OneLight!

I'm not apologizing for what I said, but for how I said it. I should of taken the time to explain why I feel this way, so that the unbeliever would feel the love of Jesus through my words. It sounded like something one would say to a child ... "Because I said so!"

Yes, there is charity!

[Rumple]

Ehrenkreuz,

We, believers, live by faith, not by absolute knowledge. Neither do we live by man's ways, but by God's Way, or, at least, that is what we should be both trying and desiring to do. Unfortunately, many of us stumble and you and others will be quick to point out these stumbles.

You are obviously a smart and educated fellow. But...we do not make it with God because of either our intelligence or our education. The Bible uses the words "whosoever will" to describe the ones that can receive what God has for them. This is good for rich man, poor man, beggar man or thief, doctor, lawyer or Indian chief. It is also good for those who have memorized the Bible and for those who cannot even read their own language. No one is barred from entrance.

You argue and debate for points on this forum and other places, but if we are correct, those points will have no bearing on the final result. The final result will depend upon God judgment alone. [Even if we were wrong, we would still lead a more satisfying life than most do. But...we are not wrong.]

You can pick on people who know less about the physical Bible and its origins as indicated by the studies and logic of man than you. This doesn't change the fact that you cannot disprove the validity of the promise we have received. And... I know the contrary thing that you could say here: Neither can we prove the validity of the promise we have received.

The proof which we do have can be shared by those that have it, but only those whose hearts are open and sincere are able to understand it and believe it. In other words I can share with you my personal testimony of how God drew me in and showed me His Way and what He has done for me, but that will not make you know what it really is. You can only know that when and if you have received the same thing in your heart.

Make God richly bless your search for Truth if it is a genuine search for Truth rather than an attempt to show by man's logic and science that someone else is in error.

[nebula]

Oh yes, the Iron Cross! So you are identifying yourself with one of the highest honors that the Nazis awarded. The Nazis, who exterminated the Jews, persecuted Christians, subscribed to the pagan philosophies of the Aryian cultures; what's up with that?

This an extremely unfair attack with no factual basis.

Hey -

I have to disagree with your assessment of Greg's comment. He didn't say Ehrenkreuz was an evil Nazi, but that he is identifying himself with the Nazis by taking on the name of one of their highest honors. The last sentence had to do with known Nazi practices.

I personally fail to understand why someone would take on such an association to oneself.

The man may disagree with the basics of Christianity, but he still deserves to be treated as Jesus would treat him.

Now, this would make for an interesting theological debate - how did Jesus treat those who spoke evil of Him? If you read the things He said to and about the Pharisees, Sadducees, scribes and teachers of the Law who opposed Him, He wasn't always very nice.

[Rumple]

Oh yes, the Iron Cross! So you are identifying yourself with one of the highest honors that the Nazis awarded. The Nazis, who exterminated the Jews, persecuted Christians, subscribed to the pagan philosophies of the Aryian cultures; what's up with that?

This an extremely unfair attack with no factual basis.

Hey -

I have to disagree with your assessment of Greg's comment. He didn't say Ehrenkreuz was an evil Nazi, but that he is identifying himself with the Nazis by taking on the name of one of their highest honors. The last sentence had to do with known Nazi practices.

I personally fail to understand why someone would take on such an association to oneself.

The man may disagree with the basics of Christianity, but he still deserves to be treated as Jesus would treat him.

Now, this would make for an interesting theological debate - how did Jesus treat those who spoke evil of Him? If you read the things He said to and about the Pharisees, Sadducees, scribes and teachers of the Law who opposed Him, He wasn't always very nice.

Why did Jesus associate Himself with prostitutes and publican who in the eyes of others were obvious sinners?

Erhenkreuz agreed that his name indicated the name of a medal given the time of the Nazi regime. He did not say that he took on the name, himself, for that reason. It may simply be the name that his parents gave him at birth. Also, my German is good enough to know that the word 'Ehren' means 'honor' or 'respect' and may be used as either a verb or a noun. The other part of the name, 'Kreuz' means 'cross' or 'crucifix'. It is the same German word that Martin Luther uses regularly in his translation of the Bible to desinate the 'cross' on which Jesus was cruicified. The origin of Ehrenkreuz's name may well be a Christian one intending to give honor to Christ, Himself. Of course, I do not know that this is the case. But...neither does anyone else here except for Ehrenkreuz, himself. Does he stand condemned without us even knowing the facts? Did jesus stand condemned before Pilate for something of which He was not guilty? Do we on this forum want to counted with the Pharisees and Pilate as condemning an innocent man?

[nebula]

It may simply be the name that his parents gave him at birth.

*EDIT: I looked up the Ehrenkreuz's profile. "Ehrenkreuz" is a female, and it is not her name.*

----------------------------------

Although I can appreciate where you are coming from in this, the fact that her last post was to admit the name meant a German medal of honor - and it was she who explained its association with the Third Reich - she opened the door wide open for speculation.

So what does Ehrenkreuz mean?

its a Medal of Honor in Germany, if I remember correctly.

You do remember correctly. Handed out during the Nazi era of Third Reich to citizens who displayed great courage/contributed strongly to the war effort.

Since she has been very strong in her declaration against the physical resurrection of Jesus, don't you think she owes us to answer this herself? Should she not have known the association would create an offense? Why did she not clarify her reason for the name in her last response? Should she not be held accountable to the use of this as a username?

She is free to answer and clarify at anytime. If any of us misjudged, we will be more than willing to appologize. All we ask is that she explain herself. Is that unloving?

Why did Jesus associate Himself with prostitutes and publican who in the eyes of others were obvious sinners?

But the prostitutes and publicans received Jesus while the Pharisees et al did not. It wasn't about religious vs. sinners. It was about who accepted Him and who did not.

Edited September 22, 2007 by nebula

[Phil.2:12]

As you can see there are a few discrepancies between the various accounts of the resurrection of Christ. The sources that were used to form the Bible are the only sources written near enough to the date of the actual event to be truly considered 'evidence' of anything. And even then, the earliest written gospel is dated around 70 AD (the destruction of Jerusalem.) I would put more faith in the letters written by Paul, the latest surviving of which can be dated to around 58 AD. And Paul makes no concrete mention of a physical rise of Christ. On the contrary, he refers to Jesus as a 'revelation'. The original accounts of a resurrection of a flesh-and-blood corpse (the last three gospels) show obvious signs of legendary embellishment over time, and were written in an age of little education and even less science, a time overflowing with superstition and credulity. Religious trust was won in those days by the charisma of speakers and the audience's subjective estimation of their sincerity, not by the merit of any form of substantial evidence.

If a man does not stand for something, he'll fall for anything. There is a certain worldly logic to what you have posted concerning the Synoptic Gospels and the Fourth Gospel, which just underlines my opening sentence.

I firmly believe in the inerrancy of the Word of God, which means that if something is stated in Scripture, even if only once, it is true with no further collaboration necessary. Thus, I am not tripped up by worldly logic to believe something that is contrary to Scripture is, in fact, the real truth. Satan has been deceiving mankind since Adam and Eve with the worldly logic that actually is against the very Word of God that He has delivered to us down through the ages. Man will tell you anything and claim it to be true, as the current political circus so eloquently testifies to. God will tell you only the Truth since it is impossible for Him to lie.

I will always trust God's Word above the word of any man, no matter how compelling the argument is, for I long ago decided to stand on the veracity of the Word of God. Since I now stand for something, I no longer fear falling for anything. It is this stand that has kept me true to God's Word through many a battle with the worldly logic and wisdom that is so prevalent in our world today.

[Massorite]

With regards to the resurrection, do you believe that Christ was resurrected in the flesh or merely in spirit? And why, please?

I've seen other Christians go either way, I'm wondering what you guys think.

It was more then just being in the Spirit. The Spirit of God is in us and all around us but we can't see it with our eyes. However when Jesus was raised from the grave He could eat food, had His wounds but was not bleeding, could walk through walls, could be seen by us, could teleport Him self from one place to another, and he could stand beside us and disguise Himself so that we didn't recignize Him. What Jesus had when He was risen from the grave was His Glorified Body which includes His spirit but is something more then a Spiritual body.

Be Blessed

[Massorite]

With regards to the resurrection, do you believe that Christ was resurrected in the flesh or merely in spirit? And why, please?

I've seen other Christians go either way, I'm wondering what you guys think.

It was more then just being in the Spirit. The Spirit of God is in us and all around us but we can't see it with our eyes. However when Jesus was raised from the grave He could eat food, had His wounds but was not bleeding, could walk through walls, could be seen by us, could teleport Him self from one place to another, and he could stand beside us and disguise Himself so that we didn't recognize Him. What Jesus had when He was risen from the grave was His Glorified Body which includes His spirit but is something more then a Spiritual body.

Be Blessed