Magog and Armageddon

[nebula]

Ezek. 38

1 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, F53 Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. 5 Persia, Ethiopia, F54 and Libya F55 are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops--many people are with you. 7 "Prepare yourself and be ready, you and all your companies that are gathered about you; and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely.

Armageddon

Rev. 16

12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and F89 of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." 16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. F90

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.

I don't see any similarity between Ezekiel 38 and the battle of Armageddon.

Notice that Babylon is not even mentioned in Ezekiel 38, yet it is the focus of the Armageddon battle.

[whirlwind]

I agree, they are very different wars, in different locations but they will happen at the same time....when Christ returns.

Respectfully, that is not true. They are not in the same locations, and do not happen at the same time.

I'm not certain if this was in reply to my post but if it was...I didn't say they would be in the same area. I said they were different wars and were in different locations. I do, however, believe they will be fought at the same time.

.............Whirlwind

[nebula]

What about Babylon being absent ini Ezekiel 38 but being the only thing mentioned in Rev. 16?

[rtwo]

Gog is the chief of the coalition of the various armies during his invasion; however the beast Beast of Revelation is at leads the invasion at Armageddon.

this is an ignorant comment...they are one in the same battle

Armageddon is the meeting of armies from all over the earth in the "Valley of Decision" (Megiddo, outside Jerusalem)...there are multiple vast armies converging on the same place, at the same time: the northern power of "Gog", the western power of the antichrist (also drawing forces from the south), and the "Kings of the East"

it's all one massive battle...you're trying to subdivide them in your penchant for strange interpretations of prophecy

I would warn against accusing somebody of ignorance when it comes to prophetic writings. There are many views on the subject of interpretation, and a claim that your own view is "obviously" the correct one (which is what you are doing by using the word ignorant) is arrogance rather than instruction.

[nebula]

What about Babylon being absent ini Ezekiel 38 but being the only thing mentioned in Rev. 16?

Bablylon is the subject of Revelation 17...it is both a literal city and symbolic of the global, false religous system the antichrist helps to set-up...in context, Revelation 16 refers to the latter

But Babylon is completely left out of Ezekiel 38-39. How can these two be the same battle if Babylon is left out of Ezekiel 38 but the focus of Rev. 16-17? That is what I want you to explain - specifically.

[Guest shiloh357]

But Babylon is completely left out of Ezekiel 38-39.

so what? the false universal religious system (the system of antichrist) is a topic not revealed until the NT, it simply would have confused an OT Isrealite reader

You still have not addressed the substance of the differences between the two wars.

Armageddon occurs at the valley of Megiddo. Yet Megiddo is not mentioned in Ezekiel. If they were the same wars, we would see far, far more points of similarity.

Armageddon is a worldwide war against Israel. Ezekiel describes a limited coalition that does not have worldwide particapation nor does it have worldwide support. The war in Ezekiel 38 and 39 is protested, but there are no such protests made against the Armageddon war.

There are too many glaring differences for them to be the same war.

[Guest shiloh357]

I agree, they are very different wars, in different locations but they will happen at the same time....when Christ returns.

Respectfully, that is not true. They are not in the same locations, and do not happen at the same time.

I'm not certain if this was in reply to my post but if it was...I didn't say they would be in the same area. I said they were different wars and were in different locations. I do, however, believe they will be fought at the same time.

.............Whirlwind

They will not fought at the same. Ezekiel 38 and 39 occurs before the antichrist, and the war of Armageddon occurs in the biblical land of Israel at Megiddo and is led by the Beast in an attempt to destroy Jerusalem and is destroyed at the second coming of Christ.

[nebula]

But Babylon is completely left out of Ezekiel 38-39.

so what? the false universal religious system (the system of antichrist) is a topic not revealed until the NT, it simply would have confused an OT Isrealite reader

In Ezekiel 38, the attack is initiated by "Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal." In Revelation, the Battle of Amageddon is initiated by "the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet."

The only way they could be the same is if "Gog" is "the anti-Christ." I have never heard any Scriptural nor historical justification for this type of interpretation.

In Ezekiel 38, the armies are out to plunder the spoils of Israel. In Revelation, the armies are gathered against Jesus Himself.

But as for Babylon being the universal religious system? That doesn't quite fit the description of all of the aspects of Babylon given in the text.

[Guest shiloh357]

Armageddon is a worldwide war against Israel.

*shakes head*

no, it's global warfare IN Israel...Israel's forces are a blip...nothing...but God's gathers the armies of the world in Megiddo to wipe them out

again, this cannot be two events! a massive earthquake that shakes the whole eartth, massive hailstones falling from the sky....come on! think this happens on several occasions?

Sorry, but you are simply mistaken here. Ezekiel 38 is not global warfare, as it is protested by several nations (Tarshish and the young lions) who do not participate.

Armageddon is a worldwide war in that ALL nations will participate in against Israel at Megiddo.. That is not what Ezekiel says about the war in Ezekiel 38 and 39. It is a limited coalition and it names the specific nations. How do you explain the absence of any mention of Megiddo in Ezekiel?

How do you explain the fact that the Euphrates has to dry up for the forces coming from the East to Megiddo, but in Ezekiel, the forces of Magog come ONLY from the North and not from the East and the Euphrates does not dry up.

How do you explain the fact that the second coming is not mentioned with respect to Ezekiel, and that Ezekiel does not mention any attempt to divide Jerusalem?

In Ezekiel 38 and 39 it does not say that God gathers the armies of the world to Megiddo. It says that God brings the forces of Magog upon the the mountains of Israel. Megiddo is not "the mountains of Israel."

You are trying to protect a pet theory that simply does not stand up with the two wars are compared side by side. When they are examined in detail, the notion that the two are wars are one and the same is demonstratably false.

[nebula]

In Ezekiel 38, the attack is initiated by "Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal." In Revelation, the Battle of Amageddon is initiated by "the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet."

initiated? all three major forces meet at Megiddo, God draws them into Israel...

I say "initiated" from the same perspective as when we say Pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave Egypt, when it was God who hardened Pharaoh's heart.

Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 16 might give slightly different perspectives, but they are the same war, with the same signs

But there are differences as well. The weakness of your argument is that you have brushed these differences aside as being inconsequential.

No, I can't answer the "earthquake" argument, but I cannot overlook the differences, either, as just being "two different perspectives," because these differences are too vast.