freefromfaith Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2007 Hello! So, I've come to the Worthy Boards seeking an answer to a question that none of my Christian friends are able to answer. I often hear Christians calling for Gods grace and blessings: God Bless America! God willing such-and-such will happen. etc. Do you Christians really believe that God *directly* blesses and graces people and nation states? Is America prosperous because God wills it? The answer I always get from my Christian friends is yes, of course. Why would one utter phrases like God Bless America unless one really believed it possible? I, however, think that such a stance is morally reprehensible. Follow the logic: If, for example, Americas prosperity is due to Gods direct intervention (blessings and grace are things God gives out), it is then true that God is withholding these blessings from countries that are not prosperous. Why would he/she do that? Can you imagine a God saying "to thee I grant freedom and delicious steaks at the Outback and to you I grant slavery and famine"? I can't. So friends, can you please stop begging for Gods blessings? It is embarrassing, especially when our president does it on t.v. God obviously does not directly intervene in human affairs because, as demonstrated above, it is too easy to show this to be morally untenable. I eagerly await a well-reasoned discussion, FreeFromFaith (and leading a happy, moral life!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paws Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 174 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/20/1989 Share Posted November 1, 2007 welcome to worthy and may God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2007 Moved from Worthy Welcome to Univeral Moral Law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2007 Hello! So, I've come to the Worthy Boards seeking an answer to a question that none of my Christian friends are able to answer. I often hear Christians calling for Gods grace and blessings: God Bless America! God willing such-and-such will happen. etc. Do you Christians really believe that God *directly* blesses and graces people and nation states? Is America prosperous because God wills it? The answer I always get from my Christian friends is yes, of course. Why would one utter phrases like God Bless America unless one really believed it possible? I, however, think that such a stance is morally reprehensible. Follow the logic: If, for example, Americas prosperity is due to Gods direct intervention (blessings and grace are things God gives out), it is then true that God is withholding these blessings from countries that are not prosperous. Why would he/she do that? Can you imagine a God saying "to thee I grant freedom and delicious steaks at the Outback and to you I grant slavery and famine"? I can't. So friends, can you please stop begging for Gods blessings? It is embarrassing, especially when our president does it on t.v. God obviously does not directly intervene in human affairs because, as demonstrated above, it is too easy to show this to be morally untenable. I eagerly await a well-reasoned discussion, FreeFromFaith (and leading a happy, moral life!) So what you are saying is that if God provides direct blessing He has been unfair because not everyone gets the same thing. Is that accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blien Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 346 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,050 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1982 Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) Have you ever looked at the American Seal on the 1 Dollar bill? The star of David is there and so is the 9 Menorah. I truly belive GOD will Bless any nation who does the below and asks for HIS Blessing. Genesis 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed." Why should we stop asking God for HIS blessing when it says in the Bible.. Mark 8:38 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my message in these adulterous and sinful days, the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when he returns in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.” Edited November 1, 2007 by Blien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Well now isn't that interesting. You want me to stop asking for my G-ds blessings because somebody somewhere in the world has it worse off than I do. So where is the logic in that???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefromfaith Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 So what you are saying is that if God provides direct blessing He has been unfair because not everyone gets the same thing. Is that accurate? Yes, I guess that is what I am saying. You see, I think the world has a great many people who live a moral life and who are, apparently, unblessed. So why are they unblessed? In my opinion a moral person meets all of the criteria for "bless-ability". I cannot imagine a supreme being who, when presented with a good, moral person would say "well, you are exactly the kind of human being I cherish...however, I won't bless you because you don't believe in me". A supreme being that has to have its ego stroked? Sounds more like a human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefromfaith Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 Well now isn't that interesting. You want me to stop asking for my G-ds blessings because somebody somewhere in the world has it worse off than I do. So where is the logic in that???? Where is the logic in blessing you and not blessing a moral man who lives in Africa and doesn't believe in God? Is your God so starved for attention? Surely an all-powerful being would not suffer from such human-like ego issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwcrenshaw Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2007 Freefromfaith, I'm totally with you on this. I think what you are kind of getting at is what is called the Epicurean Paradox: "Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world? — Epicurus" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freefromfaith Posted November 1, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 Freefromfaith, I'm totally with you on this. I think what you are kind of getting at is what is called the Epicurean Paradox: "Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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