Guest Break Down the Wall Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I love Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Break Down the Wall Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 (edited) kari I'd like to discuss your theology on everything that happens being God's will...but I'd rather not do it in a public forum because i don't want it to get really convoluted plus we'd take up a lot of space on here---but I will say this for others to mull over---It is my very firm belief that sickness, death, sin, and all of the bad stuff that happens is NEVER God's will. If it was His will for all of that stuff to happen, it would be inconsistent with His goodness. There is no cancer or sickness in heaven, therefore cancer and sickness has no authority to operate here on earth and we as His body are called to destroy the works of the devil and to make His Kingdom come and His will be done, ON EARTH as it IS in Heaven. That being said, yes, God will work through EVERYTHING that happens and use it for His purposes---but that does not mean everything that happens is His will or was His ideal choice for what could have happened in a given situation. He is almighty and all-knowing and as you said, nothing surprises Him. But as someone else mentioned, our free will comes into play. He did not create robots---would you? All through scripture we see that God ALLOWS things to happen as a result of sin or that He will use the devil as a pawn to fulfill His ultimate purposes--we all know this. God is good. All the time. He detests sickness and death and anything that is not holy and pure and full of goodness because it is a direct contradiction of who He is and what He desires for His children. He is not a child abuser. So with that said, I thought it important to clarify that there is a big difference between what God's will is and what He allows to happen because we are given free will. And to stay on topic---I think Jesus is going to come back before global warming becomes a serious threat. w00t Jesus! love y'all Edited November 21, 2007 by Break Down the Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinsarasota Posted November 21, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 187 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2007 kari I'd like to discuss your theology on everything that happens being God's will...but I'd rather not do it in a public forum because i don't want it to get really convoluted plus we'd take up a lot of space on here---but I will say this for others to mull over---It is my very firm belief that sickness, death, sin, and all of the bad stuff that happens is NEVER God's will. If it was His will for all of that stuff to happen, it would be inconsistent with His goodness. There is no cancer or sickness in heaven, therefore cancer and sickness has no authority to operate here on earth and we as His body are called to destroy the works of the devil and to make His Kingdom come and His will be done, ON EARTH as it IS in Heaven. That being said, yes, God will work through EVERYTHING that happens and use it for His purposes---but that does not mean everything that happens is His will or was His ideal choice for what could have happened in a given situation. He is almighty and all-knowing and as you said, nothing surprises Him. But as someone else mentioned, our free will comes into play. He did not create robots---would you? All through scripture we see that God ALLOWS things to happen as a result of sin or that He will use the devil as a pawn to fulfill His ultimate purposes--we all know this. God is good. All the time. He detests sickness and death and anything that is not holy and pure and full of goodness because it is a direct contradiction of who He is and what He desires for His children. He is not a child abuser. So with that said, I thought it important to clarify that there is a big difference between what God's will is and what He allows to happen because we are given free will. And to stay on topic---I think Jesus is going to come back before global warming becomes a serious threat. w00t Jesus! love y'all You are limiting God's power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehovah Nissi Posted November 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 285 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/04/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/27/1981 Share Posted November 22, 2007 We are getting to a difference in theology here. God wants us not to sin. Very true, forrestkc. But, will you or I ever stop sinning while we yet live on this earth? The holocaust was not God's will, it was the Nazis exercising their free will. Similarly, our being poor stewards of God's creation is not God's will, its us exercising our free will. We are told to be good stewards of creation. If we are, then its our free will. If we are not, then its our free will. It is God's will that we have free will. The Bible says: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28) While God does not approve of many of our choices, he does use them for his purposes. The holocaust, while evil, brought about the formation of the state of Israel. Just as God used Pharaoh's evil choices to bring his people out of Egypt. You must agree forrestkc, as a Christian, that nothing happens against God's will. If something did, God would not be omnipotent, nor omniscient. He would not be "God." Things happen against God's will all the time. Everyday, we make choices and decisions that go against God's will... The Bible says: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28) If you read a few verses before that, you will see that all things while praying in the spirit work together for good...it is more of a reference to all things praying in the spirit than all things in general. There is a connection between verses 26, 27, and 28. Things happen against God's will all the time. Everyday, we make choices and decisions that go against God's will... I agree jami. Walking in victory J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewA Posted November 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 469 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1967 Share Posted November 22, 2007 d. Honestly, this is rather absurd. Do you honestly believe that a scientist is so stupid as to think that melting floating ice will raise sea levels? Honestly, do you believe they are that dim? Do you honestly think that you are going to come up with something that those that have hold doctorates in their fields of study and have spent their life studying climate are not going to come up with? The level of arrogance among deniers is really nothing short of astounding. Would you tell a neurologist how to operate on your brain? Of course not, so why is it that the same people seem to think that something has occurred to them that did not occur to geo-physicists? ORLY The polar Ice Cap melting and flooding all low lying lands and pacific islands was pushed for a long time as the main fear factor for global warming, it may not be pushed much now as indeed this lie has been exposed as poppycock. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1109_041109_polar_ice.html The rising temperatures are likely to cause the melting of at least half the Arctic sea ice by the end of the century. A significant portion of the Greenland ice sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehovah Nissi Posted November 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 285 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/04/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/27/1981 Share Posted November 22, 2007 kari I'd like to discuss your theology on everything that happens being God's will...but I'd rather not do it in a public forum because i don't want it to get really convoluted plus we'd take up a lot of space on here---but I will say this for others to mull over---It is my very firm belief that sickness, death, sin, and all of the bad stuff that happens is NEVER God's will. If it was His will for all of that stuff to happen, it would be inconsistent with His goodness. There is no cancer or sickness in heaven, therefore cancer and sickness has no authority to operate here on earth and we as His body are called to destroy the works of the devil and to make His Kingdom come and His will be done, ON EARTH as it IS in Heaven. That being said, yes, God will work through EVERYTHING that happens and use it for His purposes---but that does not mean everything that happens is His will or was His ideal choice for what could have happened in a given situation. He is almighty and all-knowing and as you said, nothing surprises Him. But as someone else mentioned, our free will comes into play. He did not create robots---would you? All through scripture we see that God ALLOWS things to happen as a result of sin or that He will use the devil as a pawn to fulfill His ultimate purposes--we all know this. God is good. All the time. He detests sickness and death and anything that is not holy and pure and full of goodness because it is a direct contradiction of who He is and what He desires for His children. He is not a child abuser. So with that said, I thought it important to clarify that there is a big difference between what God's will is and what He allows to happen because we are given free will. And to stay on topic---I think Jesus is going to come back before global warming becomes a serious threat. w00t Jesus! love y'all You are limiting God's power. All through scripture we see that God ALLOWS things to happen as a result of sin or that He will use the devil as a pawn to fulfill His ultimate purposes--we all know this. I agree with most of your post, break down the wall, but this I'm going to have to see scripture to back up...that God uses the devil as a pawn???????? To me, that IS limiting God's power. God dosn't need the devil to fulfill His will in our lives. I see it this way, we open the door to the devil by sinning, God dosn't use him to fulfill His will in our lives. I do agree that that our choice to sin will limit God's power in our lives...that dosn't mean that He is not all powerful or not omnipotent, because He is. But Our choice is something that God will never over ride. He didn't over ride Adams choice to eat of the forbiden tree...I'm sure if He could have, He would have because it sure did make a big mess. It is only God's omnipotent Allmighty Power that can clean that mess up. And He will...Praise God!!! Walking in Victory J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Break Down the Wall Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 mikeinsarasota, would you care to back your blanket and extremely rude and poignant criticism with anything other than a personal opinion? --- and jehovah Nissi, i suppose i was misinterpreted with what i meant by the Lord using the devil as His pawn--I'm not saying that He has to, by any means...but I'm saying that He has in the past and continues to do so. Think of how Satan thought that he was overcoming Jesus with the cross--what he thought was going to be his greatest victory ended up being his greatest defeat. That's moreso what I mean---not that God ever needs to use the devil, but that especially in the case of the cross, He used what was "intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." (Gen 50:20)...which that whole situation with Joseph being given into slavery by those he trusted being an awesome prophetic picture of the saving nature of Christ. hope this is more clear now! happy thanksgiving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehovah Nissi Posted November 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 285 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/04/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/27/1981 Share Posted November 22, 2007 and jehovah Nissi, i suppose i was misinterpreted with what i meant by the Lord using the devil as His pawn--I'm not saying that He has to, by any means...but I'm saying that He has in the past and continues to do so. Think of how Satan thought that he was overcoming Jesus with the cross--what he thought was going to be his greatest victory ended up being his greatest defeat. That's moreso what I mean---not that God ever needs to use the devil, but that especially in the case of the cross, He used what was "intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." (Gen 50:20)...which that whole situation with Joseph being given into slavery by those he trusted being an awesome prophetic picture of the saving nature of Christ. hope this is more clear now! happy thanksgiving! Thanks for explaining BDTW and happy thanksgiving to you also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrestkc Posted November 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,015 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2007 d. Honestly, this is rather absurd. Do you honestly believe that a scientist is so stupid as to think that melting floating ice will raise sea levels? Honestly, do you believe they are that dim? Do you honestly think that you are going to come up with something that those that have hold doctorates in their fields of study and have spent their life studying climate are not going to come up with? The level of arrogance among deniers is really nothing short of astounding. Would you tell a neurologist how to operate on your brain? Of course not, so why is it that the same people seem to think that something has occurred to them that did not occur to geo-physicists? ORLY The polar Ice Cap melting and flooding all low lying lands and pacific islands was pushed for a long time as the main fear factor for global warming, it may not be pushed much now as indeed this lie has been exposed as poppycock. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1109_041109_polar_ice.html The rising temperatures are likely to cause the melting of at least half the Arctic sea ice by the end of the century. A significant portion of the Greenland ice sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faith pleases God Posted November 24, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 653 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 189 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/18/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/26/1977 Share Posted November 24, 2007 d. Honestly, this is rather absurd. Do you honestly believe that a scientist is so stupid as to think that melting floating ice will raise sea levels? Honestly, do you believe they are that dim? Do you honestly think that you are going to come up with something that those that have hold doctorates in their fields of study and have spent their life studying climate are not going to come up with? The level of arrogance among deniers is really nothing short of astounding. Would you tell a neurologist how to operate on your brain? Of course not, so why is it that the same people seem to think that something has occurred to them that did not occur to geo-physicists? ORLY The polar Ice Cap melting and flooding all low lying lands and pacific islands was pushed for a long time as the main fear factor for global warming, it may not be pushed much now as indeed this lie has been exposed as poppycock. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1109_041109_polar_ice.html The rising temperatures are likely to cause the melting of at least half the Arctic sea ice by the end of the century. A significant portion of the Greenland ice sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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