kari21 Posted December 9, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Episcopal Diocese Secedes From Church By NEELA BANERJEE,The New York Times FRESNO, Calif. (Dec. 8) - The Diocese of San Joaquin voted on Saturday to cut ties with the Episcopal Church, the first time in the church's history a diocese has done so over theological issues and the biggest leap so far by dissident Episcopalians hoping to form a rival national church in the United States. Fissures have moved through the Episcopal Church, the American arm of the worldwide Anglican Communion, which has 77 million members, and through the Communion itself since the church ordained V. Gene Robinson, a gay man in a long-term relationship, as bishop of New Hampshire in 2003. Traditionalists at home and abroad assert that the Bible describes homosexuality as an abomination, and they consider the Episcopal Church's ordination of Bishop Robinson as the latest and most galling proof of its rejection of biblical authority. In the last four years, the Anglican Communion, the world's third largest Christian body, has edged closer to fracture over the issue. In the United States, several dozen individual congregations out of nearly 7,700 have split with the Episcopal Church. But Saturday's vote was the first time an entire diocese chose to secede. "The church will inevitably leave the Bible behind at point after point," said Bishop John David Schofield of San Joaquin to the diocesan convention on Friday, "but since on this view the Bible is the word of fallible men rather than of the infallible God, leaving it behind is no great loss." No one is certain now what will follow, though few expect changes to occur immediately. But over the coming months, tensions could rise in the greater Communion because the San Joaquin Diocese also voted to align itself with a foreign Anglican province, or regional church. Other dioceses may feel emboldened to also cut ties with the Episcopal Church. And on the local level, the church would probably file suit against the diocese over property, lay people and clergy on various sides said. "It will be a huge, huge legal battle," said the Rev. Ephraim Radner, a leading Episcopal conservative and professor of historical theology at Wycliffe College in Toronto. "The costs involved will bleed the Diocese of San Joaquin and the Episcopal Church, and it will lead only to bad press. You have to wonder why people are wasting money doing this and yet claiming to be Christians." San Joaquin's delegates voted overwhelmingly last year to change the diocesan constitution to erase mention of accession to the Episcopal Church, but such amendments require a second vote, which occurred Saturday. Two-thirds of the laity and clergy needed to accept the changes, and the approximately 200 delegates passed the measures again by huge margins. Two other dioceses, Pittsburgh and Fort Worth, out of 110 in the Episcopal Church held their first votes this fall. Bishop Schofield estimated that another six or seven might follow suit, though he declined to name them, and that together they would form a new Anglican province of North America, marginalizing the Episcopal Church. In response to such moves, presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, the chief pastor of the Episcopal Church, has written to bishops warning them to stop and to be aware of "potential consequences." The Episcopal Church has said that people can depart, but they must leave their property, which, it contends, is held in trust for the church. The church and loyalist dioceses are already involved in several lawsuits against breakaway congregations that have insisted on keeping their property. The Diocese of San Joaquin, with 47 parishes and 8,800 members, has long been different from the rest of the Episcopal Church. It is one of three dioceses that does not ordain women priests. It stopped sending money to the Episcopal Church budget after the consecration of Bishop Robinson. Its cathedral runs a ministry for those struggling "with sexual brokenness," Bishop Schofield said, which includes homosexuality. The drive to leave the church began just after Bishop Robinson's consecration. About three to eight parishes are likely to remain in the church, said the Rev. Van McCalister, spokesman for the diocese, and among them will be Church of the Saviour in Hanford, a small town amid the vast farmlands south of Fresno. "They say that this is all about belief in Scriptural authority, but that is their buzzword for fundamentalism, and Episcopalians aren't fundamentalists," said Lana Butler, a lay leader at the Hanford church. "We are a Bible church, but we don't interpret Scripture the way a fundamentalist would." The move to leave the Episcopal Church risks roiling people's lives in the diocese, beyond the expense and strain of potential lawsuits. Secessionist priests could be defrocked and might lose their pensions. Loyalist congregations, if they owe any debt to the diocese, may themselves lose their buildings. People might leave parishes whose views they disagree with, and if a legal fight between the diocese and the Episcopal Church grows ugly enough, parishioners might leave the Anglican faith entirely. The split also threatens to draw in the rest of the Communion and the archbishop of Canterbury, the Most Rev. Rowan Williams, the Communion's spiritual leader. The diocese accepted an invitation from the archbishop of the Anglican province of the Southern Cone in South America to join his region temporarily. Bishop Frank Lyons of the diocese of Bolivia, part of the Southern Cone, said that Archbishop Williams had told his archbishop the arrangement "was a sensible way forward." But Mr. Radner said the Southern Cone's invitation showed the willingness of some provinces in Africa, Asia and Latin America to create an alternative Communion structure that would bypass the Episcopal Church and even the archbishop of Canterbury himself. That could eventually create a new church. The fraying of ties weighs on the Rev. Keith Axberg, rector of Holy Family in Fresno, which will stay in the church. "You have two different world views in the diocese: There are those with a real concern for purity and orthodoxy, which are very important, and I admire that they stand up for bedrock values, like the fact that Jesus is Lord," Mr. Axberg said. "The Episcopal Church has stood up a great deal for social justice. You really need both sides to hold each other to the fire. But they have blinders on to one another." Copyright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted December 9, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I think everybody knew this one was coming; but GOOD ON SCHOFIELD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted December 9, 2007 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I pray these folks G-ds blessings and strength in their effort to keep that which is Holy Holy and rebuke that which is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Amen! When My Son Was Young, He Attended With The Children Of Close Family Friends Of Ours A Children's Bible Study At St James. Their Children Ministry Was On-Fire For The Lord Jesus And Blessed Us To No End. http://www.stjas.org/ Carol And I Love And Cherish These Dear Brothers And Sisters And We Thank Our Lord For This Family Please Hold These Folk Up In Prayer. The Fight Now May Be Over The Fellowship's Properties. Although Truth To Tell, Fresno With Its "ValleyCrat Mindset" (Democrats Far More Conservative Than Most Secular Party-Line Republicans Could Ever Be) Is No Place To Attempt A Court Battle Seizing The Worship Homes Of Folks. Especially If The Root Reason For Forcibly Dispossessing Them Of Their Properties Is Because Perishers Believe In And Stand Upon The Word Of God. Also There Are Many, Many Bib-Overall Wearing, Ford Pickup Driving Multi-Millionaires Who Attend There And Who Just Love A Good Fight. I Doubt The Diocese of San Joaquin Would Be Out One Red Cent In This Dust-Up Although Our Country Clubs May Run Out Out Of Supplies Before It's All Over. My Buddy Says If The Properties Are Properly Deeded To The Mother Church All Assists Will Be Lost. Also Bishop Schofield Is In Ill Health And This Fight Could Endanger His Life. May God Bless These Precious Folk To Come To Love And To Trust In The Lord Jesus Christ On Both Sides. Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong1 Corinthians 16:13 Love, Joe PS: Our Dear Friends Attended "Holy Family" In Fresno. Their Measuring Stick For Fellowship And Ministry Was "Are They Nice People" Rather Than "What Does The Word Of God Say". Sadly I Think This Fellowship Is Turning Away From Christ And Becoming Universalist. Hanford Was The Home Of My Carol (My Wife) Before I Captured Her At Fresno State Over 38 Years Ago! Of Course (Sneaky Girl!) She Says It Was Her That Snagged Me! Lord Willing And The Creak Don't Rise, We'll Go Down To Hanford For Christmas To Be With Carol's Sister And Her Son And Grandchildren. I Can Hardly Wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salos Posted December 10, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 160 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/26/1950 Share Posted December 10, 2007 It's better to lose the church property than to lose in their children to false teaching. I'm so proud of this diocese for making this break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Break Down the Wall Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Don't take this as critical or judgemental, but my question here is if you are posting this because you support the ordination of a homosexual minister or because you do not? I'm having a hard time understanding what the comments after the article are in support of here----Schofield says "but since on this view the Bible is the word of fallible men rather than of the infallible God, leaving it behind is no great loss." ... How is this something to say Good job for? Is he not claiming the Bible is the word of fallible men, or am I misreading this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeilanS Posted December 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,763 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/23/1990 Share Posted December 11, 2007 It seems to me that the bigger a Church body gets, the more often it bows down to outside pressure because it wants to look good. I like the idea of every Church being a seperate entity, with no 77-million large communions. Every Christian in the world is united as part of THE CHURCH and we don't need big groups turning us into political groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari21 Posted December 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 It's better to lose the church property than to lose in their children to false teaching. AMEN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari21 Posted December 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Don't take this as critical or judgemental, but my question here is if you are posting this because you support the ordination of a homosexual minister or because you do not? I'm having a hard time understanding what the comments after the article are in support of here----Schofield says "but since on this view the Bible is the word of fallible men rather than of the infallible God, leaving it behind is no great loss." ... How is this something to say Good job for? Is he not claiming the Bible is the word of fallible men, or am I misreading this? I posted it in support of the fact they are seceding instead of accepting the ordination of homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Break Down the Wall Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 ah okay...i think i just have been kinda confused by this whole situation and wasn't sure what really was happening. thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts