Calvin vs. Arminius

[halifaxchristian]

A true Christian, at least one under the Holy Spirit's guidence, would assuredly hold to neither Calvinism or Armenianism. Why must Christians be so unbalanced in their doctrines so often? I'm sure that it's the Devil's trickeries. The Biblical stance in easy. God, in His foreknowledge, has elected, called, and chosen those whom He will...based on His soveirgn and grand plan...called freewill. Calvinism is so ridiculous of an idea, and so contrary to Scripture, that I almost find there no need to comment on it or refute it. Any individual versed to even somewhat of a degree in Scripture knows that man's freewill is a nothing but a cornerstone of God's dealings with humanity. Armenianism goes too far also in somuch that it holds to the notion that a believer in Christ can lose his or her salvation. Many problems arise there also. If one was saved, and God is not willing that any should perish, and then loses his/her salvation, why didn't God take that person home when they were saved? I could go on and on here but common sense appears only too obvious concerning this topic.

p.s. if you are a calvinist, why even bother replying to this post? I had no choice and I can't believe you anyway...baloney...with all due respect.

[EricH]

A true Christian, at least one under the Holy Spirit's guidence, would assuredly hold to neither Calvinism or Armenianism.  Why must Christians be so unbalanced in their doctrines so often?  I'm sure that it's the Devil's trickeries.  The Biblical stance in easy.  God, in His foreknowledge, has elected, called, and chosen those whom He will...based on His soveirgn and grand plan...called freewill.  Calvinism is so ridiculous of an idea, and so contrary to Scripture, that I almost find there no need to comment on it or refute it.  Any individual versed to even somewhat of a degree in Scripture knows that man's freewill is a nothing but a cornerstone of God's dealings with humanity.  Armenianism goes too far also in somuch that it holds to the notion that a believer in Christ can lose his or her salvation.  Many problems arise there also.  If one was saved, and God is not willing that any should perish, and then loses his/her salvation, why didn't God take that person home when they were saved?  I could go on and on here but common sense appears only too obvious concerning this topic. 

p.s. if you are a calvinist, why even bother replying to this post?  I had no choice and I can't believe you anyway...baloney...with all due respect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually your p.s. is an indication that you really don't understand the tenents of Calvinism.

Your logic is also questionable. Statements like "any individual versed to even somewhat of a degree in Scripture knows that man's freewill is nothing but a cornerstone of God's dealings with humanity" prove nothing and are really not arguments at all. The above statement I quoted is an example of question begging. You have stated the thing you are trying to prove in your premise. It is basically a statement that proves nothing.

In order to prove your position you would need to:

1. Define free will

2. Show that the bible supports your definition

3. Show that this free will was then a part of God's plan.

You have done none of this. All you have done is made statements about how you feel, that you have not substantiated. That is fine in as far as it goes. But it proves nothing. It is just your opinion

[halifaxchristian]

You are using, in typical Calvinistic style, a play on words (define freewill, etc.). Lets skip the intellectual circle reasonings and get down to the basics. God asks us to repent over and over in Scripture. He gets angry, upset when we do not. Obviously there is a reason for that. I am not going to get mad at a newborn babe for not reading...he can't even write yet. Is this over your head? He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Freewill and our choice in accepting or rejected Jesus Christ is a Biblical staple. Just read John 3:16-18.

[EricH]

You are using, in typical Calvinistic style, a play on words (define freewill, etc.).  Lets skip the intellectual circle reasonings and get down to the basics.  God asks us to repent over and over in Scripture.  He gets angry, upset when we do not.  Obviously there is a reason for that.  I am not going to get mad at a newborn babe for not reading...he can't even write yet.  Is this over your head?  He who has ears to hear, let him hear. 

Freewill and our choice in accepting or rejected Jesus Christ is a Biblical staple.  Just read John 3:16-18.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am more than willing to have a discussion with you. But using terms like "is this over your head?" dont't really indicate to me that you are interested in having a discussion, but in leveling insults. So I wish you well my brother

[halifaxchristian]

Sorry my brother. I had a bad experience with a guy named Ray L. Smith (a cult leader) about this freewill topic and he just about drove me nuts. My human emotions exhibited themself in this instance and not the fruits of the Spirit. I do apoligize. Perhaps we can have a discussion...??? Again, I am sorry. I let my passion override my intellect. God bless.

[EricH]

Sorry my brother.  I had a bad experience with a guy named Ray L. Smith (a cult leader) about this freewill topic and he just about drove me nuts.  My human emotions exhibited themself in this instance and not the fruits of the Spirit.  I do apoligize.  Perhaps we can have a discussion...???  Again, I am sorry.  I let my passion override my intellect.  God bless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem at all. Apology accepted without reservation. Thanks for responding. I really enjoy these discussions and I learn alot from them. I look forward to interacting with you, and learning from you as well

[halifaxchristian]

God's plan was to include freewill. That doesn't make it a failure. In my opinion, if God destines people to hell purposefully...that whole plan is a failure before it ever began. What a sadistic view of God the Calvinist has!!! My God is a God of love!!! He doesn't want anyone to go to hell. Please read Dave Hunts book, "what love is this".

[EricH]

It would depend on how you define failure (from our perspective or Gods).

[halifaxchristian]

My God isn't on par with Charles Manson. Destining people to hell is a crime. No two ways about it.

[Ovedya]

Calvinism does not state that God predestinated some people for hell. You will not find that in a single writing of John Calvin.