buckthesystem Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted January 1, 2008 This is the most horrible news item I've come across lately, and there have been some incredible ones. If something like this goes ahead I have to wonder if this government is planning to give these people that portion of their tax that has been taken all their lives to pay for their health costs, back, so that they can use the money to pay for private health care. For, say, a 40 year old it would be a great deal of money - could be 25 years of paying that part of their tax money. And I am wondering which group is next to be excluded: I'm guessing it will be the elderly. Now to be fair, imagine paying a healthy 80 year old all their healthcare tax money for the last 65 years, that they haven't used. ________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...&ICL=TOPART Smokers, drinkers and the obese beware: keep fit or risk losing NHS care By JAMES CHAPMAN Patients' rights are to be spelled out in a new NHS constitution, Gordon Brown signalled today. It is likely to cover core treatments to which they are entitled, minimum waiting times and the right to be treated in clean hospitals. But with the rights will come the responsibility to lead a healthy lifestyle. There were fears last night that this could lead to smokers and people who drink or eat too much being refused treatments. Already around one in ten hospitals refuse to carry out joint replacements for obese patients or orthopaedic surgery on smokers. The contract, first floated by Tony Blair was proposed by Gordon Brown in a New Year message to Health Service staff today. The Prime Minister believes a new focus on the prevention of ill health, rather than curing it, is essential for a modern NHS. Downing Street sources said he was not taking a "draconian" approach that would undermine the principle of an NHS free at the point of access to every citizen. But the contract could include a "general requirement" for people to keep themselves healthy. Patients' groups fear doctors and NHS managers will see this as a go-ahead to withhold more treatment. Katherine Murphy, of the Patients' Association, said last night: "No-one would disagree with the sentiment but we are concerned that imposing a duty on people to keep themselves healthy goes too far. "Hospitals are under enormous financial pressures and constraints. There has to be a fear that if people don't toe the line, they are going to be denied the treatment they are entitled to. In parts of the country, it's already happening." Hospitals are currently entitled to draw up their own guidelines on access to particular treatments. Doctors say the risks of operating on obese patients are higher and the treatment may be less effective, with replacement joints wearing out more quickly, for example. Smokers also have a higher risk of complications after surgery. Health trusts in North Staffordshire have the toughest restrictions. Patients must have a body mass index below 30 and have not smoked for three months to qualify for any routine operation. Research last October for the ITV1 programme Tonight With Trevor McDonald found that thousands of patients needing hip replacements or non-emergency operations have been either barred from treatment or told to come back when they have "shown a commitment" to become healthier. In November, the British Fertility Society said severely obese childless women should be refused IVF treatment. In today's message to NHS staff, to mark the organisation's 60th anniversary year, Mr Brown asks them to rally round the idea of a "more personal and responsive" Health Service. He calls for "an NHS which is able to offer the help and support that we all need to make healthy choices for ourselves and our families". The Prime Minister - battling to restore his Government's reputation after a disastrous few months - will set out plans to expand the "prevention agenda" in a keynote speech later this month, It will include moves to tackle obesity and further reduce the number of smokers. Opposition MPs are likely to accuse the Government of an unwarranted extension of the "nanny state". Public health minister Dawn Primarolo was criticised in November when she told the middle classes they were drinking too much. She said middle-aged couples drinking at home were a greater health concern than young people spilling out of bars. Tory leader David Cameron will set out his party's plans for the NHS tomorrow. Last year his party proposed an NHS constitution telling patients precisely what treatment they were entitled to for all conditions. But they have also said one of their first acts on winning power would be to go further and introduce a new, independent NHS board to free the Health Service from political interference. Shadow Health Secretary Andrew Lansley said last night: "Giving the NHS a new constitution is welcome but this Government has been promising this for over a year with far no progress. By contrast, the Conservatives have published legislation to give real freedoms to the NHS based on shared values. "NHS staff will be disappointed that Gordon Brown's message does not provide relief from the bureaucracy, top-down control and targets that consume so much of the time and care they could be directing to improving patient care." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily~Anne Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 146 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,308 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2008 I only read the opening, but that is absolutely unacceptable that they would cut off health insurance to anyone, ESPECIALLY to those who are obese! Some people sincerely cannot help being obese. Their pitiutary glands do not work right. They have very slow metabolisms. When a person is overweight we should never assume it is their own fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba4J Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,075 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 471 Days Won: 3 Joined: 08/05/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Ohhh it wont stop with smokers, or drinkers or the obese, as soon as people (sheep) accept the above, then they'll start adding other things that the powers that be consider wrong behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladypeartree Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 37 Topic Count: 542 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 33,035 Content Per Day: 5.05 Reputation: 23,853 Days Won: 236 Joined: 06/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1953 Share Posted January 1, 2008 well before everyone jumps on this bandwagon maybe you should actually read the proposals....they do NOT affect medical treatment that is necessary ...it is for what is termed elective treatment No one dies from not having fertiilty treatment and the chances of this VERY expensive treatment working is so low for those women who are obese that it is reasonable to expect them to do all they can to reduce their risk...dont forget the treatment can be very painful and also dangerous as it interfears with natural hormonal behaviour Yes it can be very debilitating to need a hip or knee replacment but if you are so heavy that you cannot get out of bed on your own then you are at GREAT risk of clots etc as well as heatr attack..yes I ma classed as obese and I had a knee replacment last year ..yes it was on the nhs and yes it was considered necessary ...so these things are NOT being stopped just postphoned till the patient is as fit as possibel if it is a non emergancy treatment If you have seen ( as I have ) patients in hospital with such bad breathing problems that they are on oxygen for 23 hours a day and take the oxygen mask off IN ORDER TO SMOKE then you have to wonder why they want the treatment My mothers next door neighbour risked blowing up her home and her children every day for over 4 years as she had one puff of a cigarette and three of her oxygen The family wouldnt stop buying her the cigarettes as she "wanted them to relax"...they finally had to take her into hospital and forbid her visitors from taking her off the ard in order to save her life ....even the hospital gave up when she then set the bed on fire lighting an illicit cigarette that her daughter had taken in for her ..... and in the mean time children are dying for lack of kidney machines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Your right LP, I didn't read it.........but I still say this is only the first step, and what I was talking about is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoCA Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/25/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2008 The first question is do any of these people want to quit smokng, drinking or being obese ? There is lot of help to aid them from their addictions. But when they refuse to be compliant at what point do you say fine, you are on your own. Other than that we are just enabling them in their self denial of addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Ohhh it wont stop with smokers, or drinkers or the obese, as soon as people (sheep) accept the above, then they'll start adding other things that the powers that be consider wrong behavior. Yeah, and when will something you do join the list? Do you actually believe that the "money" people wont continue to do what ever they want, while they tell the rest of us what to do.........? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoCA Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/25/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2008 The "money people" have different rules than you & I. Remember Mickey Mantle getting the liver transplant by jumping to the head of the list.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoCA Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/25/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2008 In california it will be denying treatment for skin cancer, because you didn't wear sun block when you were young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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