Guest Biblicist Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Submit to authorities...Romans 13 1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. Submit to one another....Ephesians 5 21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Church submit to Christ.....Ephesians 5 24a Now as the church submits to Christ... Submit to the Father....Hebrews 12 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Submit to leaders....Hebrews 13 17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. Submit to God....James 4 7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Submit to every authority....1 Peter 2 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, Submit to master [employer].....1 Peter 2 18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. I have no problem understanding and obeying these verses. As I am sure that most people here don't either. My question is, why are these verses so easy to understand and expect obedience of yet the verses that tell wives to submit to husbands do not...They bring such controversy. Why? Submission always means the same thing. I never hear anyone arguing against submission to God, saying, "it doesn't mean what it says it means", "that's cultural", etc. Is it cultural to submit to authorities, your employer, leaders, The Heavenly Father, each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie d Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,081 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1967 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Dear jackie d, I would only say that it is preventable, when women begin to value the things of God more than they do, and marry men who do no less. For those who have ended up as believers in the process of marriage, they need to practice their walk in full view, with graciousness, humility AND love, covered with massive faith and prayer, to let her husband know that she truly believes and obeys her God. And He calls her to love and honor her husband, so that he may be won over. Her God also reveals that He will be watching to see how her husband treats her, and HE will be answering to her God. 1 Peter 3:1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4 Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear. 7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers. (That is where faith and practice come in.) Do we really believe what God says? In His Love, Suzanne I would only say that it is preventable, when women begin to value the things of God more than they do, and marry men who do no less. I completely agree. To emphasize everything you have said Suzanne, I would stress that the only way we are capable of change is by allowing the Lord to change us and be willing to see our character flaws and work them out. It comes with trying patience and frustration, how can it not when alone we experience those things ...with someone we are REALLY going to. But we can trust that what the Lord says is true, through Him all things are possible. Sweat and toil is the lot of man, it's not just out on the work force but in all of life and I believe if more people pushed through the hardest parts of marriage the other side of them would be joy like never imagined. And with each challenging step the desire to remain true to one another we would gladly move forward to complete the commission of marriage as described in the verses above. Oh to dream blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 I came from a home where my dad would not allow my mom out of the house without him..and no one was allowed in... My husband came from a home where his mom was a very dominant force in the household..very open.. After we were married the thing that I liked about him most (how laid back he was)was the thing that I ended up disliking about him the most.. sigh... We have both changed..but not before a lot of grief...Mercy!!! Dear tah, That's the wonderous thing about the Lord, He can grow both of you together, so that together you can stop the cycles of sin, that were passed down from one generation to the next. This has been the case for my husband and myself. Because of the Truth of the Lord and His Word, we have BOTH learned to see with new eyes, and pinpoint familial cycles that have just gone on and on, that were destructive to our families and ancestors. (The sins of the fathers?) We have broken many cycles that were before us, because of God's Truth, Power and Grace. We do not do the same as those before us and it is a strengthening to our marriage to observe things honestly, together through God's Word. Any marriage that strives to be founded upon the principals that God gives, is destined to flourish! This marriage that includes Jesus Christ, possesses the strength of a cord with three strands. Ecclesiates 4:11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm. But how can one keep warm alone? 12 Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord of three strands is not quickly broken. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Sweat and toil is the lot of man, it's not just out on the work force but in all of life and I believe if more people pushed through the hardest parts of marriage the other side of them would be joy like never imagined. And with each challenging step the desire to remain true to one another we would gladly move forward to complete the commission of marriage as described in the verses above. Oh to dream blessings Absolutely! In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Submit to authorities...Romans 13 1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. Submit to one another....Ephesians 5 21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Church submit to Christ.....Ephesians 5 24a Now as the church submits to Christ... Submit to the Father....Hebrews 12 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Submit to leaders....Hebrews 13 17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. Submit to God....James 4 7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Submit to every authority....1 Peter 2 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, Submit to master [employer].....1 Peter 2 18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. I have no problem understanding and obeying these verses. As I am sure that most people here don't either. My question is, why are these verses so easy to understand and expect obedience of yet the verses that tell wives to submit to husbands do not...They bring such controversy. Why? Submission always means the same thing. I never hear anyone arguing against submission to God, saying, "it doesn't mean what it says it means", "that's cultural", etc. Is it cultural to submit to authorities, your employer, leaders, The Heavenly Father, each other? If we would be real honest with ourselves, we'd recognize that what Bib posted above, is what is at the crux of the matter. It comes down to a pride issue, and with anything that's out of order in regard to the things that God commands us, it always comes back to "pride". That is the meaning of the following: Job 33:14 For God does speak--now one way, now another-- though man may not perceive it. 15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds, 16 he may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings, 17 to turn man from wrongdoing and keep him from pride, (There is one who was created to deal with the proud, eventually) Job 41:34 He looks down on all that are haughty; he is king over all that are proud." It is a sobering thought, if we'd take the time to think about it. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I came from a home where my dad would not allow my mom out of the house without him..and no one was allowed in... My husband came from a home where his mom was a very dominant force in the household..very open.. After we were married the thing that I liked about him most (how laid back he was)was the thing that I ended up disliking about him the most.. sigh... We have both changed..but not before a lot of grief...Mercy!!! Dear tah, That's the wonderous thing about the Lord, He can grow both of you together, so that together you can stop the cycles of sin, that were passed down from one generation to the next. This has been the case for my husband and myself. Because of the Truth of the Lord and His Word, we have BOTH learned to see with new eyes, and pinpoint familial cycles that have just gone on and on, that were destructive to our families and ancestors. (The sins of the fathers?) We have broken many cycles that were before us, because of God's Truth, Power and Grace. We do not do the same as those before us and it is a strengthening to our marriage to observe things honestly, together through God's Word. Any marriage that strives to be founded upon the principals that God gives, is destined to flourish! This marriage that includes Jesus Christ, possesses the strength of a cord with three strands. Ecclesiates 4:11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm. But how can one keep warm alone? 12 Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord of three strands is not quickly broken. In His Love, Suzanne I want to stop the cycle, how do I do that, while respecting and submitting to my husband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ddavid from NC Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 196 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,343 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1964 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Why do so many churches have a problem with female deacons then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Well, I can tell you from my own marital experience, that it began with the sharing and discussion of God's Word, with my husband. (not in manner of talking down, but just sharing with him what I was understanding about our lives, from reading God's Word.) As it turned out, my husband recognized the truth of it too....He began to grow in God's Word as well. It just started by the sharing of God's Word. We were going thru a difficult trial within our family at the time, and a pastor shared with me some passages of Scriptures, that were so very appropriate to this time in our lives. I then sat down and heartfully shared them with my husband and we began to talk about the matters, honestly, with regard to God's Word. We both began to see that the Word of God was VERY RELEVANT to US, and what we were currently going through. THAT is when God began to become real to us. When someone pointed out how powerful, and applicable His Word was, even to our little lives. That WAS the beginning, many years ago. My husband is now a pastor. He now shares the Truth of God's Word with many people, and God restored things that were in disarray back then. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2008 Shalom, This is a good thread! I appreciate all the great posts. I wanted to read all of them before responding so I would not duplicate other's answers. I must say that I whole heartedly agree with Bib and Butero and Suzanne on the role of women and wives. And let me address Jackie's situation. No one has ever said it was easy or that we had it all and were looking down on others who didn't. If you read those things INTO posts, you will be offended unnecessarily. However, if you go back and actually read the posts and G-d's Word, they are encouraging us women to walk in our G-d-given roles, no matter what. According to Titus 2:3-5 that is what we women are to do, help other women live as G-d designed and walk in our G-d-given roles. Titus 2 3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled. We've been married for 25 years and we've literally walked through hell. Don't assume it's been easy for anyone else. However, G-d's Word is not optional. It cannot be excused or justified away based on our situations. When it's tough is when we need to PRESS IN more and obey His Word and do this His way, that is the only way to live our lives. Not only in the marriage, but in the ministry as well. Women have wonderful, powerful, G-d-given roles. However, they do not have men's roles and this what women want to ursurp from men. The Scriptures that have been posted by Butero, Bib and Suzanne are very plain that we, women, are to do things G-d's way. It's not our job to point fingers of blame to men. We stand accountable to G-d for OURSELVES, not someone else. We cannot justify our rebellion by theirs. And the old argument that there are no good men so that is why women step in is simply man's (ooops's women's) wrong thinking. This is when we are to TRUST G-d to provide, not try to do it ourselves. As the example of Sarah who tried to "help G-d along" when He wasn't moving fast enough and providing a child, we MUST be willing to be filled with faith and trust that G-d will provide and we are to wait on that provision, praying and walking as He decrees, either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 I am requesting that the issue of female preachers, be left in the "Women Preachers" thread. PLEASE do not take this thread from it's original direction which is regard to the family order and role affect on our society. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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