Guest man Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 The problem comes when this one says the Bible says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think my point would be that most on either side could reject the extremes. One extreme being that now that I'm saved, I can indulge in adultry, theft, greed, drugs, booze, and on and on. The other extreme is that salvation is like a revolving door or a yo yo. If I'm a good saved boy in the morning but later that day I pop my thump with a hammer and let out a potty word, I now loose my salvation. It just seems to me that theres more to agree on than to wrangle over. As far as doctrine, I do believe that there are basic tenets of the faith that are not up for debate but some of the other issues are a sorta inhouse debate that should never inhibit christians from loving and worshipping with one another. I know people who love Christ with everything they have that are on both sides of this. I have met a few that are so into one side of OSAS or another that its almost like they have made their doctrine and idol. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.56 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think my point would be that most on either side could reject the extremes. One extreme being that now that I'm saved, I can indulge in adultry, theft, greed, drugs, booze, and on and on. The other extreme is that salvation is like a revolving door or a yo yo. If I'm a good saved boy in the morning but later that day I pop my thump with a hammer and let out a potty word, I now loose my salvation. It just seems to me that theres more to agree on than to wrangle over. As far as doctrine, I do believe that there are basic tenets of the faith that are not up for debate but some of the other issues are a sorta inhouse debate that should never inhibit christians from loving and worshipping with one another. I know people who love Christ with everything they have that are on both sides of this. I have met a few that are so into one side of OSAS or another that its almost like they have made their doctrine and idol. Dan Well, yay, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think my point would be that most on either side could reject the extremes. One extreme being that now that I'm saved, I can indulge in adultry, theft, greed, drugs, booze, and on and on. The other extreme is that salvation is like a revolving door or a yo yo. If I'm a good saved boy in the morning but later that day I pop my thump with a hammer and let out a potty word, I now loose my salvation. It just seems to me that theres more to agree on than to wrangle over. As far as doctrine, I do believe that there are basic tenets of the faith that are not up for debate but some of the other issues are a sorta inhouse debate that should never inhibit christians from loving and worshipping with one another. I know people who love Christ with everything they have that are on both sides of this. I have met a few that are so into one side of OSAS or another that its almost like they have made their doctrine and idol. Dan I've been on both sides of the fence on this one. When I hear OSAS, I think of James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God, you do well. Even the demons believe and tremble." What is basically being said is that the devil believes too and look where he's going. And then there's one about losing ones salvation...check this out. "And then I will declare to them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.56 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think my point would be that most on either side could reject the extremes. One extreme being that now that I'm saved, I can indulge in adultry, theft, greed, drugs, booze, and on and on. The other extreme is that salvation is like a revolving door or a yo yo. If I'm a good saved boy in the morning but later that day I pop my thump with a hammer and let out a potty word, I now loose my salvation. It just seems to me that theres more to agree on than to wrangle over. As far as doctrine, I do believe that there are basic tenets of the faith that are not up for debate but some of the other issues are a sorta inhouse debate that should never inhibit christians from loving and worshipping with one another. I know people who love Christ with everything they have that are on both sides of this. I have met a few that are so into one side of OSAS or another that its almost like they have made their doctrine and idol. Dan I've been on both sides of the fence on this one. When I hear OSAS, I think of James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God, you do well. Even the demons believe and tremble." What is basically being said is that the devil believes too and look where he's going. And then there's one about losing ones salvation...check this out. "And then I will declare to them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2008 Actually there is not doctrins called OSAS. That is a straw man created by folks to attack. The actual name of the doctrine is perseverance of the saints. It is very different than the characterizations of OSAS people paint Shalom Eric, Still, it is a man-made doctrine of Calvin. One can make a case for it by the Scriptures and one can refute it by the Scriptures depending on the interpretation of the verses. Bottom line, it is not the cause of salvation and there is not an essential doctrine. Important, yes, essential, no. And so Dan's statement is correct that it's not something we should get dogmatic about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.56 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2008 Actually there is not doctrins called OSAS. That is a straw man created by folks to attack. The actual name of the doctrine is perseverance of the saints. It is very different than the characterizations of OSAS people paint Shalom Eric, Still, it is a man-made doctrine of Calvin. One can make a case for it by the Scriptures and one can refute it by the Scriptures depending on the interpretation of the verses. Bottom line, it is not the cause of salvation and there is not an essential doctrine. Important, yes, essential, no. And so Dan's statement is correct that it's not something we should get dogmatic about. All expresssions of Biblical Doctrine are man-made in the sense that they reflect thwe thinking of people as they interact with scripture. What you believe is man-made sine you have filtered the text through your assumptions, background, etc. One need not agree with Calivin, or Armineus, or you, or me to be saved. But that does not diminish the importance of understanding in a systematic way what the Bible teaches. All of us (you and I included) have been dogmatic abut non-salvation issues here on the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 In I Corinthians 1;11- 17 Paul writes: For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Cephas," and "I of Christ." Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius that no man should say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, that the cross of Christ should not be made void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I think my point would be that most on either side could reject the extremes. One extreme being that now that I'm saved, I can indulge in adultry, theft, greed, drugs, booze, and on and on. The other extreme is that salvation is like a revolving door or a yo yo. If I'm a good saved boy in the morning but later that day I pop my thump with a hammer and let out a potty word, I now loose my salvation. It just seems to me that theres more to agree on than to wrangle over. As far as doctrine, I do believe that there are basic tenets of the faith that are not up for debate but some of the other issues are a sorta inhouse debate that should never inhibit christians from loving and worshipping with one another. I know people who love Christ with everything they have that are on both sides of this. I have met a few that are so into one side of OSAS or another that its almost like they have made their doctrine and idol. Dan Well, yay, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan4257 Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 421 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2008 I believe allowances will be made, Love covers a multitude of sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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