KJV Bible and other translations of the Bible

[GymRose]

It is not as simple as you are making it Shiloh. For instance, my 1611 Bible contains 80 books, not 66. How does anyone know the Apocrypha wasn't inspired? Then there are books like the book about Adam and Eve that isn't in our Bible, but appears in the cannon of some foreign Bibles? I have read it by the way, but the name escapes me at the moment. There are all kinds of questions over the cannon. Then there are questions over whether or not God divinely inspired the people who put the cannon together, or if they simply did that based on their own human reasoning? You can say I am only making these arguments in desperation, but that is not so. I have seen numerous tv shows about the subject, and read many of the "lost books of the Bible." There have always been controversies with regard to the cannon.

This is exactly where I was coming from earlier in this thread when I left my last comment about the political era of the time. As with all other times including the Council of Nicea. It would seem that you and I are on a similar page with the questions regarding this subjuct however you have chosen to say the KJV is absolute where as I am still questioning my way through the history of the church and the Bible and therefore would not say any translation is beter than another except in the format of which one is easier for a person to read seeing that we are al so different and unique.

[Richard_yaash]

For instance, my 1611 Bible contains 80 books, not 66. How does anyone know the Apocrypha wasn't inspired? Then there are books like the book about Adam and Eve that isn't in our Bible, but appears in the cannon of some foreign Bibles? I have read it by the way, but the name escapes me at the moment. There are all kinds of questions over the cannon. Then there are questions over whether or not God divinely inspired the people who put the cannon together, or if they simply did that based on their own human reasoning? You can say I am only making these arguments in desperation, but that is not so. I have seen numerous tv shows about the subject, and read many of the "lost books of the Bible." There have always been controversies with regard to the cannon.

BTW Butero: I also enjoy reading the apocryphal writings. I have read and researched many of them.

If you remember the name of the book, let me know, I am curious to see if it is one that I have looked into.

IF memory serves, in the Ethiopian canon occurs the book of 'Jubilees'. Now, my memory isn't what it used to be so don't quote me on that. Now, because a cult that I was working with had built a lot of doctrine upon this book, I became very familiar with it. I spent time and went through it very carefully. The book itself has a VAST number of problems in a 'side by side' comparison with the such as the TaNaKh; LXX; Jasher as well as many others. It will not hold up in comparison and there is no 'second witness' to it. Not only that, it is rife with internal error and inconsistencies. It is this type of textual criticism that allows us to be confident in our beliefs. I do realize, not everyone has the knowledge, the ability or the time to do these things.

The Ascension of Isaiah is another such one. Under close scrutiny and textual critism it did/would not hold up.

To sum up: Butero, I have spent a lot of time in these things. I do not recommend it to everyone, nor do I recommend even reading some of them without being firmly grounded.

In His love,

Richard

[GymRose]

I would encourage you to seek the truth for yourself, because that is the only way you will be fully satisfied in your mind.

I completely agree with you and I too have been told how dangerous it is for me to seek and question some things that I am, however I know that God knows my heart and knows that I seek only to find the truth of Him.

Is it possible though that your beliefs about the KJV are something that God has shown you for your faith...... Trying to think of a good example here

OK... Like fasting, we are all to fast but it is a matter between ourselves and God. I know some people who have fasted at specific times because they are at a place in their life where God has instructed them to do so but if I did just because they were it wouldn't mean anything to me and it would be like pushing a boulder up a hill for me because it is not my call for that at that time.

Is it possible that you have such a belief because you have had a specific revelation for your life and God wants you to hold onto the KJV because He has spoken to you clearly through it ??? Is it possible that if we all had nothing but the KJV some people would really struggle in massive ways to keep their faith ???

I mean no disrespect to your beliefs at all, I'm just posing the question as it came to mind.

I've also asked the question lately........ Are we all meant to read...... What of all the people in this world who really are not readers either by disability, uneducated or even those who just plain hate reading because it is not a part of their nature ??? Just throwing that out there.

[GymRose]

One thing I would like to add. Just remember that the things you read about history, whether it be of America, the world, or the church are not always reliable.

Couldn't agree more.

Tis like Genealogy, the more sources the better.

[Richard_yaash]

No, not mistakes that affect the message, or the gospel, or the power of God's Holy Word, but they are mistakes none-the-less. The "mistakes" and "omissions" you refer to in the NIV and others are no different. They do not affect or dilute the message of Christ.

Exactly. Well spoken.

[Richard_yaash]

therefore would not say any translation is better than another except in the format of which one is easier for a person to read seeing that we are all so different and unique.

Well said GymRose.

[Guest shiloh357]

It is not as simple as you are making it Shiloh. For instance, my 1611 Bible contains 80 books, not 66. How does anyone know the Apocrypha wasn't inspired?

We know that the Apocrypha is not inspired due to historical inaccuracies, as well problems where the apocrypha contradicts the Bible itself.

Then there are books like the book about Adam and Eve that isn't in our Bible, but appears in the cannon of some foreign Bibles? I have read it by the way, but the name escapes me at the moment. There are all kinds of questions over the cannon. Then there are questions over whether or not God divinely inspired the people who put the cannon together, or if they simply did that based on their own human reasoning?

I realize the questions that are out there. I also am aware of the answers to those questions. What I find astonishing is the fact that you act as if those questions and difficulties have never been answered or dealt with.

You can say I am only making these arguments in desperation, but that is not so.

Your act of desparation is your attempt to cast a shadow on the overwhelming testimony of the inspiration of Scripture in order to hide the obvious emptiness of your argument that the KJV translators were inspired. You cannot produce ONE shred of Divine testimony to the Divine inspiration of the KJV translators, so your pathetic tactic is to resort to tearing apart the Divine testimony of the inspiration the Bible.

I have seen numerous tv shows about the subject, and read many of the "lost books of the Bible." There have always been controversies with regard to the cannon.

And most of the shows, like you live under the cloud of confusion, assuming that those controversies have not been solved or that they are unanswerable questions.

[Richard_yaash]

My position is that the fact all these new translations exist is the work of the devil breeding confusion.

Butero, I do understand your position. For it is one that I myself also considered and looked deeply into. It was this type of thing that in part, also took me into the original codex/manuscript(s)/texts. Please don't think that I do not understand your POV and that like yourself, I have not looked and delved deeply into this matter.

[Guest shiloh357]

If I may play the 'devil's advocate here for a moment. No offense intended Shiloh, nor to anyone else, just play along with me for a moment, it is just something that struck me as I was reading down the latest posts in this thread:

Let's assume for a moment that KJ was inspired by 'God' to do so. Is there a possible Biblical basis for such?

(snip)

So yes, it is possible IMO the KJ was inspired to have it done. It is further possible that the workers were some real power hitters. However, that does not necessitate that the end product was 'perfect'.

The problem here is that in Butero's case, He has nothing in the of either Divine or human testimony regarding inspiration of the KJV tranlsation or the translators themselves. God does not say anything about the KJV being inspired, and neither do the KJV translators. Their reason for doing this translation was that they were commissioned by King James and not some inspired Divine mission from God. If King James had not commissioned it, they would never have written it.

[Richard_yaash]

These are not things that can be proven conclusively.

That applies to your side as well, it is a double-edged sword.

I spent the time looking into the matter. I read many of the lost books. I compared various Bible translations.

As have I. I OTOH have not only compared 'translations', but also the codices/manuscripts/texts. You have made your choice, and I can respect your choice. Please also respect our respective choices.

after looking at differences in the various translations, have become convinced that the KJV is the only fully reliable translation.

And that is good: For you. There are those of us who also have looked into the differences, not only in the translations, but also in the codices/manuscripts/texts. Having looked into these things upon a deeper level by doing so, we are not only convinced, but have examined the evidence upon a [pardon the expression] 'forensic' level.

In His love,

Richard