GymRose

Removed by OP

I once read an answer to this question that was answered by a Jewish man in another forum. I'll see if I can find it. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with why people here write G_d instead of God.

This is so much of what I've seen in church in the last few years the last 2 in particular have been horrendous and whay I have had to come away and why like I was explaining to you I stopped posting here with a view to not coming back in the last couple of weeks. I have that constant image of Jesus looking over the Earth weeping and I have a constant cry in my spirit.

I don't agree with the gay lifestyle, let me say that straight up..... And I also think that the word "marriage" should be left sacred for male/female unions..... BUT..... I think the bigger deal Christians make of it the bigger the situation can and will get. I used to go to a gay friendly gym and honestly it was the most comfortable gym I've ever been in because no one judged anyone. Yeah, from time to time you had your loud mouthed "I'm Proud to be Gay" in there from time to time but it was really no different to the straight girls I've know who flaunt themselves and turn the heads of every guy just for the kicks of saying "look at what I've got to offer and I can have you drawling all over me". The fact is we all sin and in God's eyes sin is sin, I know some Christians who put gays in the same "catigory" (go back to my last point) of sin as a murderer and it just isn't. I'm in Australia butour culture is so Americanized it isn't funny and honestly our society has already changed on this one and while I don't support it all that is happening is that they will have apiece of paper they couldn't get before and more rights as a couple.... I don't like it from the point of view family isn't family anymore.... It has been redefined. I'm not saying for the Church to lay down and play dead but sometimes I think we need to look at our own lives a little more than trying to stop others living theirs, be it right or wrong.

Got a question.... Being in Australia we are a little behind you guys with the news over there......... I've just read an updated news article that says "When Beatie had his sex change, he had surgery to remove his breasts and underwent testosterone therapy, but kept his female reproductive system." So in other words does that mean her/his genitalia was never altered apart from breasts...... ??? In which case this is still a woman without breasts and with facial hair ??? The other thing being how long have this couple been together as they say that Mrs Beatie had a hyster 20 years ago due to Endomitiosis...... So was this all done delibratley. And going public.......... Yup I agree MONEY........ At the unborn childs expense. Link to Article

Yes, I jumped the gun on this one, You are very right about the chemical, genetic, and environmental factors I just have a real problem when psychology is added to the equation. Especially as psychology is used today I do understand where you are coming from and qite frankly I think there was a major stuff up by the psychologist in this case not reading the signs of this person wanting to keep their female organs. But then again this person may have been deceptive about their intentions to. To be honest with you I'm so tired of the spiritual issue and psyc issue thing though in some ways. We blame too much on both and we find reason to opt out of responibility or make poor desicions based on "I have issues though". Life is what it is and it can be really hard sometimes and it can damage and cause excess bagage........ I know !!!! But to say everything is spiritual or everything is psychological has gone too far. You are so right psychology is not the same as the psychology of old but I also find Christians can take spiritual psychology too far too. As I stated above I do believe there is genuine need for such a procedure as a sex change in extremely rare cases like with a birth defect much like a baby born with a cleff (sp?) pallet or some other form of deformity that needs surgery but when it comes to gender if there is an abnormality with the genitals and the parents decide either gender and it is wrong there is grounds I believe as an adult to have it changed once again. And there are genuine cases of gender identity crisis due to birth defects (for lack of a better word) but in this case you really have to wonder about the entire system and how wrong they can get it. Not to mention how much easier it appears to becoming to get an operation like this.

You are right Of course, anything to get out of having to educate yourself on the issue. I suppose being schizophrenic, depressed, and and bi-polar are deep spiritual issues as well. Yes they definitely are...maybe you should educate yourself from the right source. Psychology cannot cure any of these... But on the other hand, if you need to medicate, then do, especially for these ailments. I think this is another topic all together but I just have to say one thing. You are so correct WillingToDie........... As someone who has children everyone wants to slap an ADHD label because they are very acive boys who struggle enormously with school and socially. They both have a high IQ but learn different to what the system dictates. And also as a person who has suffered depression on and off my entire life....... And certain people trying to slap the "spiritual issue" label on as well, I get so angry about everything falling into the "spiritual issue" basket when it comes to mental health because not all of it does........... Some does, some doesn't. Some is genetic, some is chemical, some is environmental and yes some is spiritual...... but not all.

I believe there are people who go through a guenuine sex change thing but it is from birth...... Like in the case of a child who was born with genitals that developed wrong and the parents chose to have reconstructive sugery done as either a male or female but it was a wrong decision because theire gender identity of their traits and personality was the other gender and as an adult this person got a sex change............... Extreme case, rare and totally nothing sexual about, other that the identity of their gender. This case on the other had is just plain............... WRONG Was this IVF ??? Firstly the doctor who did the sex change obviously got the psyc evealuation wrong and really if you are ganna go from a woman to a man they should have to do a hyster too........... Or it really isn't a sex change. I mean really the "I want to keep my female organs" should have been a red flag to the doctor....... Wouldn't ya think....... ????? Second if it was IVF aren't their rules................. This is just rediculous. I'm so sick of hearing about how the IVF program is being used in a manner that it was never intended for, like becoming a single mum to fill the void of a partener or same sex couples having a child. The people who really deserve it and would raise a child the way God intended don't have the financial means often or struggle enormously to fund having a child and yet more and more it seems easier for situations like this.

That is really interesting Eric, I don't think we fully comprehend the word love in our culture.

WOW...... Ovedya, it highlights once again how far we fall short and the absolute AWSOMENESS of God. The symbolism is very interesting and very much worth considerable thought......... Pondering. But more over it just highlights to me how AMAZING He is. Can't wait to read more.

Ovedya........ I'm dropping the kids to school and can't wait to get back and read through your post.

It was not a thread hijack, it was a direct response to gymrose's statement that suggested that the Garden of Eden was some perfect place that would only get messed up by man's intervention. (sigh) Hey ..... I wasn't going so deep as you took it. I was thinking of it like how my kids treat the house as compared to how I would like to keep the house, eg their bedrooms or even the backyard. I don't see mankind as cancer on the earth and I never said anything about man being evil I was talking about man having knowledge and in an immature way making mistakes or the like..... And I'm only having to think hard about explaining what I was meaning now, the converstion was very light hearted which was where I was coming from. But personally I'd prefer a wild rambling garden or forest to a manicured garden any day.

I felt very vulnerable making that statement One Light..... You know there are somethings you think should I open my mouth and say it or keep it to myself cause you think others might think I'm just stupid or off with the faries....... LOL You made me feel much better about saying it One Light YEAH, that is quite a scary thought about the tree of life. I understand where you are coming from but I see physical proof of God's existence everwhere and to me from the sounds of Eden it would have been like a master piece...... If I were to paint a master piece or create something truly wonderful that I think could be or would be destroyed at someone elses hand I would hide it, not destroy it, not that I'm comparing my mega creations with God's Amazing Creativity & Work. I mean I'm not God nor do I know the vastness of Gods thoughts but I would hope he wouldn't destroy such a place. But then again we are like kids looking for Christmas presents and I suppose He couldn't risk us finding such a place, let alone the two trees or such significance........

Never even thought of the flood My thoughts for a long time have been a little Fantasy I suppose on this subject in the fact that I just think there is so much we don't know or could possibly comprehend about God and that He can cover up anything he wants. If He doesn't want us to find something like a specific place He is God and can cover it, if you like, so no person can find it. Pretty simplistic I know and maybe a little childish in some eyes but I've always just dismissed the thought of anyone finding Eden because God threw Adam and Eve out and He wouldn't want us in there to polute such a wonderful place and who's to say God doesn't have the power to "hide" it. But like I say, I never thought of the flood.

This is a very interesting topic and I can't wait to see where this goes....... One Light, I'm all ears with you.

Thank You Massorite That helps on both counts. I think I'll have to read more about Tyndale, I did know he one of the first to interpret into English, I didn't know he was the first nor did I know of those harsh penelties although I've known for a long time about the control the Catholic Church has or would like to think it has / had over scripture.

I personally found a couple these points very interesting and very thought provoking. It bought one question to my mind though. Do Jews and Muslims have different translations as we do? I ask this from the point of view that we all have the first 5 books of the Old Testement. Sorry if this is diverting a little from the OP but the question came to me reading this post about the witness of our translations to non Christians and I'm now curious if anyone knows the answer to this. Second, why did the Catholics want to kill Tyndale? I'm still discovering Church and Christian history (my interest in this thread).

You know it never ceases to amaze me how many times this subject comes up and how long these threads go for along with the attitudes that come out. This is a debate no one can win because those for tatts have their view and those against tatts have their view and from my research on both sides of the fence the arguments are pretty equally balanced........ I just keep reading to see who is ganna give up first

I do believe that something is left behind of ourselves in a spiritual sense...... Kind of like a fingerprint or something. I know I can walk into a house and feel either warmth or a chill. I suppose like the thing of feeling the old souls. Even churches, have you ever walked into an old church and felt that emotional pull from something more than you can see or explain??? I've found location very interesting from a genealogical point of view being involved in Genealogy and a drawing in a sense. For instance there is a part of the country area near Adealide where I was always drawn to drive out to, if we went for an arvo drive out that way I would begin to feel a real sense of peace and belonging in a very tangable way. As I begain my genealogy I suddenly discovered that the area I was drawn to was that of my ancestors.... I had no idea. I know many other Christians who have said similar about visiting a certain regions or a particular building weather they knew there was ancestry ties or not. I do believe there is far more in the supernatural than we could ever comprehend and just because it isn't in the Bible doesn't mean it can't or doesn't exist. I don't know about this being a new Age thing though because Christians have written books about the significance of being careful about what we bring into our homes in the way of books, TV, ornaments etc etc. The one main book I'm thinking of that I can't remember the name of also goes into incidents of people who have felt nervous about a particular room in there home or whoever slept in the room had specific dreams and found out something significant happened in that room. I haven't heard of the renovating thing before but I do think there are different fingerprints if you like of past occupants, most nothing at all to worry about but then there are some that are very demonic. I lived in a unit once that I COULD NOT stay in alone day or night, it was horrid and things happened that were like a horror story, nothing huge but things like cuttlery on a stand tinkling together with no breeze or movement in the building, appliances switching on and one room inparticular I HATED to go into. As it happens I know for a fact that the previous tenent was into seances (sp?). I was so glad the day we moved out. I do believe very much praying through your home and even your entire property but don't go looking for things that may or may not be there. We've bought property and haven't bought property based on the feel of the property. As Christians I don't think we should search further than that unless something does make it's presense felt after buying the property or moving into a rented prperty. I think persoanlly to want to see more, know more past that can lead to just going into Medium type stuff which is so dangerous.

I got my first and only so far tattoo when I was 30, because I knew it may be an issue for some in Christian circles I did alot of research on both sides of the argument and came to the conclusion this is a debate that could go for an eternity. I despratley wanted the tattoo but also didn't want to cause offense to others. The tattoo has great significance to me and I had it put on my shoulder where I can cover it to keep from offending those that would disagree with my decision, however I have never hidden the fact I have a tattoo in conversation. Those that say it is ok don't get those who say it isn't ok but more over I found those that don't get why a person would get a tatt will never understand the significance. Recently I wanted to get another but felt very strongly I needed to cancel the appointment I made, it just didn't feel right and I had to aknowledge that (mainly about money but other factors came into it). I have no regrets at all of my first and feel no negative conviction about it. I may get the other at some point. My point is that I don't see it as sinful but going against your gut conviction is not a good thing. Also one needs to keep in mind that it is permenant and take serious consideration of the image....... It is there for life. I sat on mine for over 6 months to KNOW that was the one. I don't believe everyone who WANTS a tatt SHOULD get one because some people just do it to say "I have a tatt" or for rebelion. Like anything motive is important. But as far a scriptural debate goes......... It will go on until the final day because we all seem to see a different context. I'm not getting into the debate, that is my story and my opinion.

It is about God equipping us all at the right time for the right situation when we listen and are obediant to that small (and sometimes not so small) voice within. Unfortunatley thought the catch phrase of "Equipping The Saints" these days is a disguise in many cases for "Equipping Another's Extravegant Lifestyle".

Sorry if I ruffled you feathers, but I stand firm on what I have said. You know nothing about who I am nor what I do for work, so to attack my statement in such a way is very naive and uninformed, if I may use your own words. As far as the series goes, they can go if they wish. I said that it sounded more of a business deal where one would sell a lot of material, require classes and make a profit doing so. [sarcasm]The US has a great market on God and they are raking in millions every year, so why not more?[/sarcasm] I still will take what God gives me free. Be Blessed, In His Peace, OneLight Onelight I have to agree with you. I'm sorry but as a person who has been through emense personal struggles with a suicidal teen and both of us with severe depression I have turned to the "educated" as well as the uneducate, I found that NONE of the educted helped in anyway, in fact they made the situation worse. It was those that came in love that helped (the very few that did). I am not talking going to 1 or 2 I'm talking across the board christian and non christian alike. Those with the supposed training were useless because they used text book theory to try and help as opposed to heart felt understanding...... More over my son was put in the TOO HARD basket. As far as these ministries go this is what has driven me out of church, I am so sick of programs that are supposed to equip the church to benefit the community that you have to buy books, Cds, DVDs etc for. All they do is benefit their own pockets and lifestyle. Never heard of this one and I really hope we don't in Australia.

Thanks for those links..... Now I understand the difference. I Googled to find out the difference yesterday but the pieces I found were very complicated. The second link simplifies it all. I'm not at all sure of what I think of Mark Driscoll as I had never heard of him and like all church leadership I think there is ones own take on things to put your beliefs forward and get a following, especially in the way he made his points against all the ones he is not a part of, but he did make sense in explaining the difference. Maybe I'll watch some more of what he has to say on YouTube and see but yeah the links were brilliant.

It's amazing the way He works behind the scenes, it isn't until we see it with hindsight that we see He was there with us all along. His way is the best

BTW Darl, I don't think you killed that thread, I think it just went in a different direction to the OPs Topic. That was the only reason I didn't respond in there, I'd already been pulled up on going off topic ...... I think others probibly felt the same as me. I'm sorry you felt like you killed it........ YOU DIDN'T