jackie d Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,081 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1967 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 I would take it to mean that ministers today are not in the ministry for the right reason. They have moved away from putting the emphasis where it should be, on Christ and him crucified, and have placed in on themselves. Ministries today are more about personalities than Jesus. Even local churches are often built on the personality of the Pastor, rather than because the pure Word is being preached. That was rather the impression I had, too. But it goes beyond ministers and ministries - many Christians regard their faith as "what it does for me," rather than centering their lives around Jesus. (I think we are all guilty of this in our own way and need to guard our hearts against it.) And I agree, the message of the Gospel has veered away from "Christ and Him crucified." Thank-you for sharing Jackie! Yes Nebula that aspect is actually more of what I see than anything....I hear so much, people talking about themselves and their testimony and walk truly speak volumes saying "what about me, see me, look over here and notice me"...and I agree too that we are all guilty of this..hence John the Baptiste "I must decrease, so that He might increase".. I don't want us to veer away from this topic and turn it into what it is not, and yet with pondering the verses that I included esp Heb 5:12& 13, Heb 6:1&2 suggests softly to us all that as many of us who are no longer babes in Christ...perhaps we should move forward and beyond Christ crucified and concentrate on Christ resurrected and we with Him. Now Paul never suggests to any of us that we forget what He has done for us, neither do I. We must all make sure we remember from where we came, as Paul's examples continually speak. But our predecessor Paul, also continued forward from the cross to the resurrection and beyond to the ascension. As Paul's writings make clear through out, we have a higher calling as the priesthood, and the invitation of Him to learn of the deeper matters leaving the basic foundation in its place but not to return to them, as we then take on the characteristics of babes, who are dull of hearing and must be coddled and nurtured once again... Thank you Nebula for sharing your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blien Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 346 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,050 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1982 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I am so guilty of this too. Thanks for sharing your vision and thoughts with us Jackie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Sorry, Jacki, I wasn't trying to veer off-topic - just trying to discern the vision. But looking at what M&M wrote, I see what you are saying: from the title of the topic, I was almost immediately thinking it is because we keep trying to RE-CRUCIFY Him, over and over again, by not doing what He has told us to do...... we want to continue to live in the old ways with the benefits of the life we should have with Christ. . . . The message of "Christ and Him crucified" is actually addressing a different point (1 Cor. 2:12) But the funny thing about visions . . . they can cover multiple territories. On the one hand, we see people in the Church losing sight of the significance and seriousness of Christ's sacrifice on the cross; Yet on the other hand, we see people in the Church living in the cycle of sin-repentance-sin-repentance-sin-repentance . . . with no growth. There cold be a dual application here, if you think about it. And in a way, to me at least, this makes sense. For in looking at the perspective of people losing sight of "Christ and Him crucified," they are in fact "crucifying Him over and over again" . . . for in both cases they are treating His sacrifice frivolously. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie d Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,081 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1967 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 Sorry, Jacki, I wasn't trying to veer off-topic - just trying to discern the vision. oh you misunderstood I think..I wasn't implying that you were I was simply stating that because quite often one sentence in a post can take the topic completely off it's origin and it can be impossible to retrieve... For in looking at the perspective of people losing sight of "Christ and Him crucified," they are in fact "crucifying Him over and over again" . . . for in both cases they are treating His sacrifice frivolously. Does that make sense? absolutely! and I couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard_yaash Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 940 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/10/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2008 Amen! Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says," YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. Amen Fraught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard_yaash Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 940 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/10/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2008 I would take it to mean that ministers today are not in the ministry for the right reason. They have moved away from putting the emphasis where it should be, on Christ and him crucified, and have placed in on themselves. Ministries today are more about personalities than Jesus. Even local churches are often built on the personality of the Pastor, rather than because the pure Word is being preached. That was rather the impression I had, too. But it goes beyond ministers and ministries - many Christians regard their faith as "what it does for me," rather than centering their lives around Jesus. (I think we are all guilty of this in our own way and need to guard our hearts against it.) And I agree, the message of the Gospel has veered away from "Christ and Him crucified." Thank-you for sharing Jackie! Hi Butero and Nebula, Please forgive my combined reply. Butero: I would agree that regrettably in some, the emphasis has shifted. This seems particularly true within some mega-churches and I am not saying all. Wouldn't it be nice to hear the pure Word? Even greater, to move beyond mere milk to the real meat of the Word. Nebula: It is sad that there are those of the "what it does for me" variety. I can only imagine what things would perhaps be like if more of us were focused upon what we can do for Him, what we can do to further His kingdom. I do agree, for I know that even I am guilty of this and need to guard against it. Jackie: Thank you for sharing this with us. It is without doubt something that should give us reason to... <caesura> Pause and reflect upon our lives. I know that it has given me reason... Again, thank you dear Sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard_yaash Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 940 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/10/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2008 kind of like that old kids song...... magic penny... love is like a magic penny, hold it tight, you wont have any, lend it, spend it, give it away, you'll have so many, they'll roll all over the floor..... I haven't thought of that one in years upon years now. Thank you Mike, it seems apropos to me within this, for we have been given so much... yet... what do we truly do with it? I know that I am guilty. I know that I am deeply ashamed of what I have done with it in recent years. Much longer, I may have lost it all. we hold on to what we have, and not share it... so in all essence, we are loosing what we have and do not even realize it..... I wholeheartedly agree Mike. The parable of the talents... we really need to do what we were told to do....... being a Christian is not about just hanging out with those that already believe, our faith in Christ should be such we will want to keep His Commandments and want to fulfill the Great Commission...... we are to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creatures, not just those that already believe..... Well said. at an out reach one of the speakers came up and said, there is a cafe in town full of Christians, and none of them seem to know about this out reach...... at this rate, we will not have any offering..... he had said this after three days with no one showing up..... he was paid for his expenses, and told that he was free to move on.... after he packed up and departed, people came by..... not many, but a total of 7...... four were from another area, three were local.... and those three are in church now because of that out reach...... offerings taken in? none.... Yet, how much greater the blessings for those three than any offering could ever be. there was even preaching and singing and praising and worshiping on going even when no one was visible in the park.... who knows, there might have been some one on a boat in the river, or fishing from the river bank, or in the woods, hiking.... Yes, we never know how far it may reach. We do not know nor can we even possibly foresee how great the impact could be even years down the road. And so it is written: And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. we are told that in the end days, that vissions and dreams will be happening and that the Spirit will be poured out upon all flesh.... and our sons and our daughters ( not just male) will prophecie .... we need to pay attention to these things..... not discount them because we do not BELIEVE they are for today... for the Word of God already said they are.... Amen Mike, well spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Mr and Mrs Mike......You are so right in my book. That is the first impression I got also. Not that the o.p is doing this but we all are. Let us not put the blame on the ministers a pastors. And we persecute each other as well. It reminds me of the words God spoke to Saul before He became Paul. What some do not realize is that the cross is not up in heaven. absolutely wonderful vision and yes it can be seen in different perspectives but Let the Holy Spirit of God interpret. Jesus being put on the cross without the Honor an Respect due to Jesus in keeping the Graveclothes off is a travesty. Jesus does ask if He will find one person of faith on this land when He returns! It is Faith in what Jesus did and living a life worth living, walking in victorious faith. We all are not perfect but Jesus does know the heart of man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard_yaash Posted March 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 940 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/10/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2008 But the funny thing about visions . . . they can cover multiple territories. I agree Nebula, they may have a meaning of several fold and depending upon individual hearer, have a different impact. On the one hand, we see people in the Church losing sight of the significance and seriousness of Christ's sacrifice on the cross; Yet on the other hand, we see people in the Church living in the cycle of sin-repentance-sin-repentance-sin-repentance . . . with no growth. Sadly yes. But not all. There are those who have grown greatly and gone to achieve much through Him and by His Spirit. There could be a dual application here, if you think about it. And in a way, to me at least, this makes sense. For in looking at the perspective of people losing sight of "Christ and Him crucified," they are in fact "crucifying Him over and over again" . . . for in both cases they are treating His sacrifice frivolously. Does that make sense? Yes it does. Thank you Nebula, I have enjoyed reading your thoughts upon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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