WN: 70 Palestinians killed in IDF operation in Gaza - Ynet News

[Guest]

One one hand, there are many who believe that the Kingdom will be brought by force and seem very eager to play a hand in it. I am not sure where their position stands on Jesus, shiloh has admitted to being a Jew and I believe some clarification of this is necessary.

Hay!

My God Is A Jew

"And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." Revelation 5:5

And He IS The Peace Of Jerusalem

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee." Psalms 122:6

For He Is Coming Back With Clouds Of His Saints

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him." Jude 1:14-15

To Liberate Planet Earth

By Force

Because He Believes, Dear Brother Shiloh Will Be With The KING Of The Jew

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

And So By The Grace Of God Will Be Eager Old Brother Joe

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Revelation 22:20

The Question Is - Where Will You Be?

"Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:" Hebrews 3:7-8

There Are Only Two Choices In This Life

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

The King Of The Jew Or Eternal Condemnation

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:17-18

Your Choice

Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

Heads Up!

There Is Murder In The Air - Pray For Israel

There Is Murder In The Air - Pray For Ishmael

There Is Murder In The Air - Pray For The Kingdom To Come

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:21-22

Cry Hosanna To The KING OF KINGS

Cry Hosanna To The LORD OF LORDS

Cry Hosanna To Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah)

Even So Come Quickly Lord Jesus Come Quickly

Amen!

[Guest shiloh357]

One one hand, there are many who believe that the Kingdom will be brought by force and seem very eager to play a hand in it.

This has nothing to do with bringing in the Kingdom. It has everything to do with honoring God's covenant and taking a morally responsible stand against terrorism.

So far, I have mostly seen arguments that stem from the old covenant. The one between God and the people of Israel.

Old or New is irrelevant. God made an eternal covenant with Israel through Abraham. Covenants do not cancel each other out. The Abrahamic covenant is eternal (Gen 17: 7-8), meaning that it is still in force. Eternal means "eternal."

So this brings us back to the question of whether God supports Israel in this war.

The Bible answers that question, in both Old and New Covenants. One thing to keep in mind is that much is said about Israel in the Old Testament pertaining post New Testament times, meaning the days we are living in now. That having been said, God has not changed his position about biblical Israel. There is only one Israel and it is the one that consists of the physical descendents of Israel.

The Jews were his chosen people.

Correction, the Jews ARE the chosen people. God has never rescinded that.

Now, on the other hand there is me, and Elchingen (though correct me if you don't share my views) who believe that in this war there are no winners because God would not support a side because its his own Kingdom he's worried about.

That is where you are wrong. God intenselly supports Israel, as Israel is His nation. The Bible is the story of Israel. The nation of Israel is God's nation and always will be so long as the earth and the heavens continue to exist (Jer. 31:35-36). God is a Zionist. To be anti-Zionist is to set yourself at enmity with God. Those who reject modern Israel as the product of God's hand simply do not believe the Bible and are calling God a liar. There is only ONE Christian position on this issue and that is the pro-Israel position. All true Christians support Israel. I would not want to be an anti-Jew, anti-Zionist (both terms are the synonomous) and have to one day stand before the King of the Jews and sputter up some reason as to why I thought God was wrong about Israel.

I have prayed for Palestine and have gotten labelled as an anti-semetic pacifist.

Your anti-Semitism stems from your one-sided condemnation of Israel's self-defense while ignoring Palestinian terrorism.

[Guest shiloh357]

Elchingen,

First of all I am glad to see I'm not the only one here with these views. I have attempted in a few other topics to try and get my points across and it doesn't ever seem to come out right so I'm glad to see you here. I think its a great thing that all we can have these discussions to exchange ideas about the Kingdom.

We all believe that the Kingdom will come, but we differ in our predictions of the way that it will come and what our part as Christians are in establishing it.

One one hand, there are many who believe that the Kingdom will be brought by force and seem very eager to play a hand in it. I am not sure where their position stands on Jesus, shiloh has admitted to being a Jew and I believe some clarification of this is necessary. So far, I have mostly seen arguments that stem from the old covenant. The one between God and the people of Israel. That is not to say that the old testament is meaningless, it paints us a excellent picture of the nature of God and there are many noteworthy praises to be read. So this brings us back to the question of whether God supports Israel in this war. Well, judging by the old testament, and the old covenant he does. The Jews were his chosen people. But as I hope you all know, God made a new covenant, not 2000 years ago. In fact, we even uphold this covenant whenever we take the Eucharist (communion). We affirm that "[For] whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 1 Corinthians 11:26". Through out scripture we read that Christ's death was a sacrifice, but something was special about this sacrifice. It was special because it was for Jews and Gentiles . This is central to the Christian faith that everyone can be freed from our sins. Yes, even terrorists. John (who was once called Saul) is a prime example of this.

Now, on the other hand there is me, and Elchingen (though correct me if you don't share my views) who believe that in this war there are no winners because God would not support a side because its his own Kingdom he's worried about. God's scandalous grace was enough to save the world from its sins, why is it too weak to save a murderer's sins? Jesus has shown us how to live and I think that if the Messiah comes again but as a warrior, then he will show us the way. But until then, I think there is some Kingdom building to do and we don't do it by throwing bombs at each other.

I have prayed for Palestine and have gotten labelled as an anti-semetic pacifist. I have prayed for Israel and am told I am not to be trusted and that I'm not genuine. Please, this has to stop.

In Love, Adam

EDIT: I shouldn't be naming names

Well, now there are 3 of us. I am a favorite of Shiloh's barbs too. God Bless.

Oh please... all you ever do is take pot shots at Israel and then whine when you are confronted. Your position is grossly anti-Semitic and I am just more honest than you about the source of your beliefs. You quote from the some of the most hateful anti-Semitic sites you can find and then complain when your views are exposed for what they are. It is no secret that you hate Israel. You are one of those Christians that would take a great deal of quiet pleasure if Israel was destroyed.

[nebula]

Hay!

My God Is A Jew!

Preach it, bother!

[nebula]

Sorry, I should have said that I would like some clarification from shiloh. I didn't mean that for you, I will change it right away.

OK, apology accepted.

But, yes, Shiloh is a believer in Yeshua HaMashiach as well.

(You should see what he does when a muslim comes on Board trying to promote Islam. )

[hupo]

Yet another example of your misrepresentation of what I have said in the past. If the way you talk to people is what you consider to be a "good Christian" then I am glad I am not what you consider a good christian to be. I have seen no love in you. You can not understand that there are CHILDREN who suffer under Israeli policies and that that is why they grow up to hate Israel. Compassion for the suffering of others is missing in you.

As I have ALWAYS asserted, I support jews in the hope that they come to Christ, but I am no zionist. What you can not, or will not understand is that there can be a difference between supporting Jews and supporting unjust zionist policies.

KatyAnn Shalom

I am biased, having been living in Israel all my life, besides, Shilo and the others are doing a much better job than I can, explaining things scripture based.

What I can add is the personal touch. I know this doesn't nesceserily fit in with God's plans but I'll add it anyway, for what it's worth to you.

You mentioned "unjust zionist policies".

From the day I can remember we were involved in wars and acts of violence by our neighbors...... you know, the neighbors we are supposed to love as ourselves.

In 1948 I was 4 years old and watched my dad swing big guns around practicing to ward off a Syrian attack.

For a 4-year-old it was fun watching them play war games. We didn't have a clue how serious it was.

In 1956 I was 11-12 and we were told the Egyptians had blocked off the Suez canal cutting of our south from the world.

We were getting somewhat concerned as the news kept bringing numbers of people killed. Our parents were out there.

In 1967 I was just out of the army when Egypt decided to block off the red sea. Again our south was cut off and by now I knew how serious all this was.

The 6-day-war was a big victory, millitarywise. At that time I didn't have a clue how much God was involved.

1973 we were attacked on the most sacred day. Again we won this war. We couldn't afford not to!

In 1982 we went after the terrorists who were now using Lebanon as their base.

We stayed in Lebanon for 18 years keeping the north of Israel safe. We left and Hisbollah now took their turn to "get rid of the Zionist state".

the war with Lebanon in summer 2006 was the explosion of all that hatred that had been building up since 1948 (and before).

By this time I had come to recognize God and the amazing sacrifice of His only son.

I realized we were meant to be here according to God's plan.

I also realized we were going through all kinds of tribulations due to most Israelies not recognizing their Messaiah.

I also understood when God told me to pray for my enemies.

Have you ever tried doing that? Praying for your enemy as he shoots rockets at your home?

It was the hardest thing in my life.

Left to my own feelings I would so hate Palestinians, Arabs and anyone of the countries around me who have been trying to kill me ever since I can remember.

I have had debates with people in this forum about the need to pray for the Palestinians, where deep inside my flesh being It is the last thing I feel like doing.

Now I hear people in this forum telling me the Palestinians are suffering?

Of course they are!

Do you know why?

Just look at their leaders all through the ages. They are the ones you should be talking to.

We shoot those that shoot our children.

Hamas shoots at civilian cities to kill as many as they can. It 's good for the media.

They know very well that if they stop shooting we will not touch them. That is something they cannot have.

A Hamas leader spoke out just a few days ago saying they have an advantage over us...... do you know what that advantage is?

Israel takes life very seriously while we (the Hamas) lift up death and Shahidism !!

Yes I know God wants me to pray for them. It will take God Himself to get me to do that.

Just a little question:

What would you personally do if your kids were being shot at? Would you pray for the shooters?

[Elchingen]

Katyann, Inglesio:

I more or less agree that the Spirit that is Christs foundation for us as His Body in the world is one that shines with the fruit of the Spirit--love, joy, peace, mercy, compassion, etc. Idealistic? Of course! Unrealistic? Not at all. I can not in Christian conscience salute the flag, join the army, allow any child of mine to join the army, or support either war or terror from any one side or the other.

HOWEVER, I can have an opinion on such things that is based on the fruit of the spirit. I can put myself in anothers place and empathize. In fact, it has taken me years to realize that this empathy, which seems to pretty strong from what others say, is a gift from God, allowing me to expand in compassion and understanding for others. This is not to say there aren't those who really rile me up--Bill O'Reilly comes to mind--but that the Lord has always instilled in me the need to identify with anothers plight and feel their situation. Isn't this what He has done for me, after all?

It is not only the Palestinians who suffer. It would be wrong to not look beyond the front and know there are the childless of Israel, the orphaned, the maimed, and what was their crime? Being born in Tel Aviv, or Ashkelon, or Jerusalem? They have no more idea at a given age what the violence around them means.

As to covenants, I have to side with those who side against me on this issue and say, yes, the Abrahamic Covenant lasts as long as there is a remnant, as ever was the case. To think otherwise would be to believe that once Christ had died for all, He just gave up on His people. We know that isn't the case. In fact, I am a Jew, aren't I? grafted into the vine by the free gift of God of eternal life? Anyone who calls himself or herself a Christian is calling themselves an Israelite, and justly so! This is the royal family we have been born again into!

YET for this very reason I stand opposed to the policies I have decried here. Because God is the same yesterday, today, and always, and His love was as much for Samaritans, Edomites, Cushites, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, and Persians in those days as it is for everyone today. How many times were His prophets sent to prophecy to foreign countries? And among them was Jonah.

Shilo and nebula, read Jonah, many times over. Understand the mistake Jonah made. He was waiting for destruction, waiting for God to wipe out Ninevah, to destroy these people that Jonah felt God SHOULD have destroyed.

But God didn't. God forgave them. And there sat Jonah, unable to understand that he had allowed his own self-righteousness--one of the worst sins for our spirits--to blind hijm to the comapassion and mercy of Almighty God.

How many people have we waited for God to destroy?

The Germans? The Italians? The Russians! The Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Cubans, the Nicaraguans, the Iranians, the Iraqis, and of course, today, one is especially singled out for the fires of Gods judgement if they are Muslim. But who among us even understands Islam? There are Muslims all over the world working for a few bucks to pay their bills and feed their children just like the rest of us. We have so much more in common with those we are so easily led to despise--it's frightening!

But we have the light. WE HAVE IT! We aren't waiting and watching and hoping , except for that final day, but He is in us! He is with us NOW! We have so much we can give. And instead we find every reasons to defend what we have, to protect what is not ours, and to be selfish with the things that are only ours on account of our father. This is as much peace and prosperity and security as it is air, water, and food.

It's all His, isn't it?

But Israel, though it be a people, is still a nation and a government.

The prophets spoke against her then in her errors.

They speak against her now.

In Christ.

[nebula]

Shilo and nebula, read Jonah, many times over. Understand the mistake Jonah made. He was waiting for destruction, waiting for God to wipe out Ninevah, to destroy these people that Jonah felt God SHOULD have destroyed.

But God didn't. God forgave them. And there sat Jonah, unable to understand that he had allowed his own self-righteousness--one of the worst sins for our spirits--to blind hijm to the comapassion and mercy of Almighty God.

How many people have we waited for God to destroy?

Ah - but you are so wrong!

I have no desire to see the destruction of the people! I would so prefer for them to be content for the time with what land they have and use their resources to build up their people and their economy rather than spending so much time, money and resources trying to destroy Israel.

Ooops . . . I've been asked for - I will finish this later.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yet another example of your misrepresentation of what I have said in the past. If the way you talk to people is what you consider to be a "good Christian" then I am glad I am not what you consider a good christian to be.

You can lose the fake spirituality, KatyAnn. You only bring up Christianity to use it as weapon. There is nothing "Christian" about your position on Israel. The only parts of this board you post on are the political sections where you voice support for some loopy politician or silly conspiracy theory. Either that or you throw digs and take pot shots at Israel.

I have seen no love in you.

Yeah, just 'cause I have the temerity to call your anit-Israel position what it is.

You can not understand that there are CHILDREN who suffer under Israeli policies and that that is why they grow up to hate Israel. Compassion for the suffering of others is missing in you.

That is not true at all. It's just that my compassion is also based on the facts, not your mythical, misguided fantasy that Israel is this big, mean ogre that is oppressing the Palestinians. I guess if you spent more time studying the facts instead of frequenting anti-Semitic websites, you would have a better understanding of the history and dynamics of this conflict.

They are not suffering under Israeli policies. It is the Palestinians that use them as cannon fodder. They use their own children as human shields so that when Israel responds to a terrorist attack, the Palestinians make sure that their children are in harm's way in order to score propaganda points when they are killed (and judging from gullible people like you, it works).

The Palestinians teach boys as young as ten years old how to blow themselves up. They teach their children that Jews are descended from apes and pigs.

Recently, it was Hamas that banned any imported milk, fruits and vegitables from Israel into Gaza. Israel was sending all kinds of nutritious, need food to the Palestinians and Hamas banned all of it. It was the Palestinian children who suffered from Palestinian/Hamas policy as result.

Hamas fought a brief internal civil conflict for control (which had nothing to do with Israel) that resulted in many Palestinian men being summarily executed leaving children withhout an able bodied breadwinner in their familes.

Christian Palestinian children have suffered not under Israeli policies, but under the policies of instutional persection of Hamas and the PA. The Christian Palestinian population in Bethelehem had majority of 80%. But since Bethelehem came under Muslim/PA control, they have dwindled to a mere 20%. Conversely, in Israel, the Christian Arabs has been growing to the point of nearly quadupling its population of 1948. Christian Palestinians in Israel enjoy more freedoms than any other place in the Middle east. In 1948 the Christian population in Jerusalem was 28,000. As of 1993-4, they numbered 146,000. That's increase of 200%. Why would the Palestinians want to live in Israel, if Israel isthe cause of so much of their suffering????

Jewish children also suffer under under PA policy. They are blown up on buses, shopping centers, supermarkets, pizza parlors, and on playgrounds.

The only "policies" that are causing undue suffering is the policies aimed at the destruction of Israel. That is why the children suffer. They are used as tools and pawns in a war of attrition that was not started by Israel, but by the PA and its insane desire to see the Jews exteminated out of the Middle east.

As I have ALWAYS asserted, I support jews in the hope that they come to Christ, but I am no zionist.

Your views will always serve to reinforce Jewish unbelief.

What you can not, or will not understand is that there can be a difference between supporting Jews and supporting unjust zionist policies.

You don't know beans about Israeli "policies." Which "unjust zionist polices" would you be referring to?

Here is what Zionism is:

Zionism is:

• the National Liberation movement of the Jewish People.
  
  
• It is the modern expression of the ancient longing by the Jewish People to return to its land and live as a free people once again.
  
  
• It is the desire to secure a modern state for the Jewish nation.
  
  
• It is the conviction that the Jewish people has the right to live in freedom and security in its homeland.
  
  
• It is the determination to aid and encourage the return of any and all Jewish refugees of the Diaspora who wish to return home.
  
  
• It is the concern for the safety and security of that modern state, and the desire to see it strong enough to defend itself and the Jewish people as a whole from any present or future existential threat.
  
  
  Show me the unjust polices extant in Zionism from the definition above. Show me what exactly Zionism is that makes it so bad. You're not a Zionist and so it would appear that you are against the Jews having anything of the above. If we were talking about black people, your position would be called racist.
  
  My, my those wicked, dirty Zionists over in Israel. They are so unjust to the poor Palestinians!!!
  
  
  • They voted for the Partition plan and for a Palestinian nation in 1948, but the Arabs rejected it.
    
    
  • They given Palestinian refugees and their children free universal health care
    
    
  • They give both social security and welfare to Palestinian refugees.
    
    
  • They build hospitals and schools for the Palestinians
    
    
  • They built a special school for Palestinian children who were blind (Arafat closed it down and turned it into an ammo dump).
    
    
  • They build five universities for the Palestinians
    
    
  • They stopped Palestinian children from dying from preventable childhood diseases (which they were dying from while under Arab rule for 19 years)
    
    
  • They protect the rights of Muslims to pray at all of their holy sites in Israel (Jews and Christians cannot pray at the Temple mount and Jewish holy sites are regularly vandalized in the West Bank and Jews who pray that those sites are often muderered or severely injured if they survive.
    
    
  • They protect the Muslims freedom of speech so that Imams can scream and foam at the mouth like rabid hyenas every Friday night calling for Israel's destruction from inside mosques that sit on Israeli soil.
    
    
  • They never use suicide bombers, never gun down innocent Palestinians. They never use their own children as cannon fodder to kill innocent Palestinians.
    
    
  • Israel has never started a war with the Palestinians, but the Palestinians start plenty of conflicts on their own and even gun down fellow Palestinians in street if they question the use of terrorism as a means of achieving social and political objectives.
    

  Yeah, they are SOOOOO unjust, those Zionists.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shilo and nebula, read Jonah, many times over. Understand the mistake Jonah made. He was waiting for destruction, waiting for God to wipe out Ninevah, to destroy these people that Jonah felt God SHOULD have destroyed.

But God didn't. God forgave them. And there sat Jonah, unable to understand that he had allowed his own self-righteousness--one of the worst sins for our spirits--to blind hijm to the comapassion and mercy of Almighty God.

This only highlights how little you understand. I have not ever called for the destruction of the Palestinians no one on this board supports such a thing. Israel does not seek to destroy the Palestinans and, therefore, supoorting Israel does not entail supporting anyone's destruction.

Conversely, it is Palestinian governmental policy that Israel should be destroyed and as it was said in 1967, "pushed into the sea." Even now the Palestinian charter still calls for Israel's "liquidation." It is the goal of the Palestinian leadership to see the nation of Israel annhilated and a nation called Palestine put in its place. That is what you don't understand about this conflict. If anything, you need to be relating the story of Jonah to the Palestinians.

I am a Jew, aren't I? grafted into the vine by the free gift of God of eternal life? Anyone who calls himself or herself a Christian is calling themselves an Israelite, and justly so!

No, you are not. That is called "replacement theology" and it is a grossly anti-Semitic theology crafted by the Jew hating early Church fathers.

It is not only the Palestinians who suffer. It would be wrong to not look beyond the front and know there are the childless of Israel, the orphaned, the maimed, and what was their crime? Being born in Tel Aviv, or Ashkelon, or Jerusalem? They have no more idea at a given age what the violence around them means.

The problem is, the Palestinians are at fault for the suffeirng of both. Israel has no policies of destruction and does not have a policy of targeting innocent children. Most of the Palestinians have died as the result of an Intifada they started, by being used as human shields by their own people, by using their own children to distract armed Israeli soldiers so that they can be used as cannon fodder, by dying as a result of the bombs they used to murder Jews, and at the hands of their own people in either civil conflict, or murdered on the spot for challenging the use of terrorism or converting to Christianity.

I agree the Palestinians suffer, but you need to place the blame where it belongs.