End times

[Massorite]

When Christ died on the cross at Calvary He died for all. In 1 Corinthians it tells us there is no distinction between the Jews, Greeks slave or free man.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body

[Guest Havenite7]

When Christ died on the cross at Calvary He died for all. In 1 Corinthians it tells us there is no distinction between the Jews, Greeks slave or free man.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body

Edited May 14, 2008 by Havenite7

[Jack_White]

Wow! That is an awesome point! I absolutely agree with you! Why would God specifically choose Jews when Paul talks about the true Jew being those who are Jews inwardly and that circumcision is no longer circumcision of the flesh but of the heart! Romans 2:28-29. Why would God and Jesus revert back to the people that rejected Jesus at the first coming, and those few that did reject him are part of the spiritual family of God?

A close friend recommended this website to me. He said the site explains controversial issues with much detail and clear Bible explanations. I have read only three of the many articles posted, but you might enjoy reading them. Let me know what you think!

Maybe we can discuss the articles as well! Please read the posts numbered 21-24. Those were articles posted by the site.

It seems like people on that site are really seeking the truth. I hope I always have a heart like that!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCJChurchofJesus/messages

When Christ died on the cross at Calvary He died for all. In 1 Corinthians it tells us there is no distinction between the Jews, Greeks slave or free man.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body

[eric]

As far as I can gather, the link provided above is a lds site, or a oneness apostolic church.

which church is the SCJChurchofJesus.

[Jack_White]

Thank you for responding to my earlier post!

What is more important: To be able to label theories or to use scriptures to support what God is saying through his word?

1.) John 1:11-13:

Jn 1:11 He (Jesus) came to that which was his own but his own did not receive him." Who are his own that did not receive him? Those of the old covenant that were waiting for the Messiah to come.

Jn 1:12 YET to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will but born of God.

What are the requirements to become children of God? The old requirements for being a subject of the old covenant: born of natural descent from Abraham (Mt 1), human decision, or a husband's will (all physical requirements).

To those who received him, to those who believed in his name (his own did not, v. 11) he gave the right to become children of God. NOT of natural descent, human decision, or a husband's will (physical attributes), but born of God (spiritually).

A. Please define who becomes the children of God after Jesus comes: the phsyically chosen people or the spiritually chosen people? The Jews as a nation rejected the Messiah promised by God in his word (Lk 24:44). Of the small remnant that accepted Jesus, they became children of God spiritually, by being born of God. If they continued to be the children of God, why did John not mention that they could also be a child of God through physical means?

Are those who believe in Jesus physically born of God? God is spirit. What does it mean to be born of God?

The Jews, however, on a whole like all other people in the world have the chance to be spiritually chosen people. God has not rejected the Jews or any particular nation: all have the chance to be born of God. However, the old covenant with the physically chosen people of the Israelites was broken. Why? God found fault with the people. Please read Hebrews 8:5-10. The new covenant is made with spiritually chosen people, with laws written not on physical tablets of stone but written on our hearts (spiritually). Did God lie when he made the conditions of the old covenant in Ex 19:5-6?

Are we saved because we are Jews and are keeping the law of the old covenant? Are we trying to keep the old covenant or the new covenant? If we do not even understand the old covenant and that it has been finished, how can we claim that we are keeping the new covenant?

Let's understand God's word, especially the new covenant, and be ready for Jesus when he comes back by understanding the events that are to take place according to his word and not according to theories.

----------------------------------

Questions to consider:

Mt 21:43 The Pharisees and teachers of the law were considered rulers (spiritually), if Acts 13:26-27 (and 1Co 2) is read. Who receives the kingdom next? Who are "a people who will produce its fruit"? What is the meaning of fruit? Did the Israelites fail to produce enough apples one year?

1Pe 2:9 If the Jews are still God's chosen people after the making of the new covenant, why does Peter call Christians "a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God"?

If the new requirements are no longer physical, then why is the term "Israel" continually used in the New Testament? Aren't they still waiting for the Messiah to come? Why does Paul, a physical Jew, write to Romans and say that a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly?

[Jack_White]

Eric, you are in error by your statement. SCJChurch of Jesus is not related to lds or a oneness apostolic church. Before you associate any group be it Baptist or Catholics or SCJ or Mormons as a a cult, you must have the proper standard. What is your standard: the word of mouth or the word of truth? Please be careful with your words. Isn't it better to research something new and use the standard of the Bible rather than quickly labeling?

But I would encourage you, Eric, and everyone else to visit the articles on the sites below. Please have your Bible ready, as it is best to read every verse and check the context if it is true or not. If you have questions, please feel free to leave comments. Or, even join the group on yahoo for chats. The chats are quite interesting in the yahoo forum.

Blog: http://healingallnations.shinchonji.com/

Yahoo forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCJChurchofJesus/

As far as I can gather, the link provided above is a lds site, or a oneness apostolic church.

which church is the SCJChurchofJesus.

[Jack_White]

Cobalt, you should do more than just a cursory glance. I challenge you to join one of the sites and see if the material posted is true or not. It is not new age or some strange occult. I spent many years researching cults and occults. I love apologetics. The SCJ site does encourage a deeper understanding of all parts of the Bible.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCJChurchofJesus/

Blog: http://healingallnations.shinchonji.com/

As far as I can gather, the link provided above is a lds site, or a oneness apostolic church.

which church is the SCJChurchofJesus.

Even a cursory glance would tell you that their theology has some "problems." Seems there is some new age stuff thrown in for good measure as well.

[Guest yod]

quote from Jack_White May 14 2008,

Wow! That is an awesome point! I absolutely agree with you! Why would God specifically choose Jews when Paul talks about the true Jew being those who are Jews inwardly and that circumcision is no longer circumcision of the flesh but of the heart! Romans 2:28-29.

The premise is already flawed since Paul was speaking only about the jewish people being who God called them to be in that verse you quoted. It has absolutely nothing to do with gentiles becoming jews.

That fact is easy to see if you look at the context of why that was said...and to whom. A good method for determining context is to read 3 verses before and after anytime you study a particular scripture. In this case, Paul is speaking to jews only...unless you know of any gentiles who were circumcised?

Why would God and Jesus revert back to the people that rejected Jesus at the first coming, and those few that did reject him are part of the spiritual family of God?

that is the wrong question.

"Why would God break His Word to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?" is the question you should be asking. The answer is that He simply did not.

And by the way, according to Peter in Acts 4 it was the gentiles who killed Yeshua in collusion with the leaders of the people. And anytime you read the word "jew" you should understand that it has multiple meanings (like many english words) and depending on the context of usage it can mean:

1. A person from the tribe of Judah.

2. A political leader of the southern Kingdom known as "Judah"

3. Any person within all the tribes of Israel. This happened because the blessing of the first-born was passed over Rueben, Simeon, & Levi to the 4th son, Judah. You can read why in Genesis 49 with verse 9 making Judah the leader of his brethren.

A close friend recommended this website to me.

The bible explains itself quite well if you can accept that God knows what He is saying and how to say it.

I recommend that we spend time studying the scriptures instead of any website or commentary.

[Guest yod]

unless you know of any gentiles who were circumcised?

Acutally circumcision was given to Abraham, and Ishmael was circumcised...Was Ishmael a Jew? Also what about those whom Simeon and Levi slew...were they Jews? They were circumcised.

Though I seen it said by a couple of people that those two verses pertain only to the Jews I feel that is faulty. I dont have to be a Jew outwardly to be counted as one inwardly since it is praise of God that is required for the inward recognition.

Picky, picky, picky.... I'll rephrase the question since you want to be picky.

Were any gentiles ever commanded to be circumcised? Of course not...only hebrews and those who wanted to be joined to the tribes of Jacob.

According to the scriptures, gentiles are never called "a jew" inwardly, outwardly, or any other way. Of course, you can always become a jew by receiving circumcision and adhering to the Torah and all other covenants given to Israel. However, Paul says that will profit you nothing and indeed you would be trying to perfect in the flesh what God has done already in the Spirit.

Paul calls this "falling from grace". Not exactly sure what he meant by that but it doesn't sound good.

Here is the context of the verse you are misapplying.

BEFORE saying what he says in verse 29, Paul makes it crystal clear that he is speaking to the jews in the congregation at Rome

17 But if thou bearest the name of a Jew, and restest upon the law (torah), and gloriest in God,

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, even as it is written. (Is God blasphemed among the gentiles by the Church?)

25 For circumcision indeed profiteth, if thou be a doer of the law: but if thou be a transgressor of the law, thy circumcision is become uncircumcision.

THEN come verse 29 which has already been quoted to justify something it doesn't actually say (gentiles being jewish) and then the immediate verses AFTER show in crystal clear fassion that, again, Paul is speaking only to jews about what their calling as jews means

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision?

2 Much every way: first of all, that they were intrusted with the oracles of God.

9 What then? are we better than they (jews better than gentiles)? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;

an intellectually honest person would admit that this has nothing to do with gentiles being jewish...spiritually or otherwise

[Guest yod]

A gentile does not turn jewish, they are being recongnized as something inwardly by God. This is a reality no matter how you slice it. This verse shows how one is a Jew inwardly. What seperated the Jew from the Gentiles. Do you actually think it was circumcision?

I never said that something doesn't happen "inwardly" to a gentile. I said that you haven't become a "true jew" by virtue of misapplying that verse to gentiles

However, to be scripturally accurate, circumcision was always a sign that jews were set apart from the nations according to God

What really seperated the Jews from the Gentiles was the presence of God was with them.

Yet throughout all of biblical history only some were "true jews" (as defined by Romans 2:29) so why do you assume that God's hand has been withdrawn from them? Is He incapable of keeping His promise to the patriarchs just because gentiles are now being added to the Israel of God?