Spirit of Prophecy

[prophetsong]

I think I understand your intention and your love for the prophetic. I hope I also understand correctly that you are not giving preference to prophetic messages apart from the Bible. By the way, there were certainly prophets in the New Testament and since Moses was obviously one who was sent out, it could be argued that there were Apostles in the OT. It might be helpful to refrain from drawing the lines too clearly without the possibility of cross-over. God tends to be too large for ironclad definition.

God is beyond any human definition. All that we percieve of God in this life time is nothing more than the tip of the iceberg. I believe that there were apostles in the old testament. Moses may have stood in a dual office of apostle and prophet.

[AnotherTraveler]

I think I understand your intention and your love for the prophetic. I hope I also understand correctly that you are not giving preference to prophetic messages apart from the Bible. By the way, there were certainly prophets in the New Testament and since Moses was obviously one who was sent out, it could be argued that there were Apostles in the OT. It might be helpful to refrain from drawing the lines too clearly without the possibility of cross-over. God tends to be too large for ironclad definition.

God is beyond any human definition. All that we percieve of God in this life time is nothing more than the tip of the iceberg. I believe that there were apostles in the old testament. Moses may have stood in a dual office of apostle and prophet.

Wow! There is absolutely no scripture to base that on, in neither the Old or New testament, that Moses or anyone in the Old Testament was an Apostle. This is one of the worst kind of examples of presenting a doctrinal position that is completely without any scriptural support. Plus, it is as useless to discuss as discussing whether Adam had a belly button.

Where are the true prophets that stand on the Word of God and will not allow the perverse addition to, nor subtraction from, that which the Word of God says?

In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Judges 17:6 (KJV)

In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Judges 21:25 (KJV)

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Prov 12:15 (KJV)

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. 3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. 4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

Prov 21:2-4 (KJV)

A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Mal 1:6 (KJV)

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Luke 19:27 (KJV)

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Matt 21:38-46 (KJV)

[AnotherTraveler]

I read his testimony, sounds good, I like it.

I still maintain that there is absolutely no scripture anywhere to support Old Testament Apostles, including Moses.

The danger of this kind of teaching is that if you feel someone has a genuine call from God, if they are likeable to you, and/or if you hold them in a place of respect but are not skilled in the Word of God, such things could become the foundational lie that the devil uses to lead you down a far worse slope of other teachings that are not scriptural.

To be biblically nobel, you will search the scriptures, to see if these things are so or not. When a search is made, and the supporting scriptures are not found, then the teaching (no matter how popular or well accepted) must not be taught as though it is truth, for the Word of Truth has not established it.

Many prophets are not called to be teachers, and the ministry of teacher is not the same as the ministry of prophet. When a skilled plumber decides that he also can pour concrete, you might discover that the skill he exhibits as a plumber might not translate to the same level of ability when he tries to pour concrete.

I know this much, if you love the Word of God, then everything will be measured by it, and prophets love the Word of God very deeply, and all I am trying to do is sound a caution to my dear brother prophetsong. I am not trying to dismiss the greatness of God's calling in his life, only to urge care in the expression of bible truths verses personal opinions.

[stacey c]

Prophetsong's testimony is very powerful. But, unless I missed something, Ididn't see where he stated that Moses being a Apostle was proven scriptualy, he said may have. Sounds like he stated an opionion. And he has stated on more than one occasion that prophesy needs to be tested against the Word. So where's the debate?

[terter]

He's saying what I said in post #17. Eph 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"

[AnotherTraveler]

Prophetsong's testimony is very powerful. But, unless I missed something, Ididn't see where he stated that Moses being a Apostle was proven scriptualy, he said may have. Sounds like he stated an opionion. And he has stated on more than one occasion that prophesy needs to be tested against the Word. So where's the debate?

We just don't know who is this or who is that, and as a result, no one's position, education, or calling gives them a free pass here. If an opinion is expressed, it is subject to challange, without regard to someone's possibly higher calling. When an opinion is expressed from the perspective of someone in a position of authority, it is all the more important that an error not just be given a free pass.

Historically, in the USA, several "prophets" have taken up the position of teacher when that was not their calling, and many errors proceeded. Branham was a noteworthy prophet, but many of his "teachings" were not fully researched and produced a cascade of continuing errors to this day. His followers (he has been dead some decades now) are called Branhamites, and they seam to be fine Christian people, until you get to the subject of THE PROPHET, and then they fall into person worship, all because the prophet was above being challanged on his teachings.

For the record there is no big debate though.

[Celt]

In my opinion, there's been much confusion about the Biblical office of the prophet and apostle. The meaning of prophesying per The Bible is to speak under Divine inspiration. Obviously, there's a difference with the Apostles whom our Lord Jesus appeared to, as they were under direct Personal Divine guidance. I don't believe The Lord has directly appeared to anyone thereafter like He did with His early Apostles and Paul to personally direct The Church. Yet I don't believe the office of the apostle is over like some do, nor the office of a prophet.

The idea of an apostle means to be 'sent' by The Lord. I believe there still are 'sent' ones today, even all the way to the end, but not in the same capacity as Christ's early Apostles He personally appeared to and directed. What I'm talking about is the idea of the "very elect", those of God's servants sent to lead His Church. In Romans 10 Paul speaks of those who preach The Gospel of peace as being 'sent'. That doesn't mean everyone who preaches The Gospel is a 'sent' one, but only those who are called to preach The Gospel according to Scripture, aligning with God's Word by The Holy Spirit. It's obvious today some are not doing that according to God's Holy Writ, even some that don't really understand what they preach, but are following the guidance of an organization or school training from men.

Likewise, with the prophet office, I believe that still exists too, but not in the same capacity as the Old Testament prophets. With the advent of the cloven tongue on Pentecost, some who claim to speak in that tongue have claimed to prophesying. And quite a few false ideas have come from that, claiming The Holy Spirit. So how do we account for that?

It goes back to what some have already said, that everything needs to be verified in God's Word. For in reality, a prophecy that appears to be new today cannot be new and still be aligned with God's Holy Writ. An example is how Paul proclaimed the mystery of the Gospel going to the Gentiles. It was a prophecy first written of in the Old Testament Scripture, only that Paul was sent to proclaim its time for manifesting. The prophecy that that would happen was not new. There are many prophecies first given through God's OT prophets that still have yet to come to pass today. So the Biblical example is that one in the prophetic office today MUST follow that same example of not proclaiming something new, but things that were written beforehand that were yet to manifest.

In Revelation 11, our Lord gave John to mention about God's "two witnesses" He will send in the last days (during the tribulation I feel). Along with them is mentioned two candlesticks, which mean two Churches.

Rev 11:3-4

3 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

(KJV)

In Rev.1:20 our Lord told us the seven candlesticks represent the seven churches. There were only two churches in Revelation which The Lord had no problem with (Smyrna and Philadelphia). I interpret that to mean those two symbolic churches will be prophesying along with God's two witnesses, the two olive trees.

In Mark 13 our Lord Jesus commanded those who are delivered up to councils and synagogues of Satan to not premeditate what they will speak, but to speak what The Holy Spirit gives them to say in that hour. Those will be fulfilling the prophetic office, giving a Testimony for Christ during the tribualtion.

Dave