ps127v1 Posted May 6, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 102 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2008 Where is the line drawn between having freedom through grace to do as we feel is justifyably right to that of sticking to the letter of the word? Are there gray areas in the Bible that need explaining or is everything a black and white issue? Just wondering what your thoughts were on this topic. Have had discussions with several pastors about this in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merin Posted May 6, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 432 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/05/1979 Share Posted May 6, 2008 i belive there is always a black and white....we as fallen humans just do not know it sometimes...that's were grace comes in...and times when we do know and we dont do the right thing anyways and tha's were forgivness and grace come in also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps127v1 Posted May 6, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 102 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 just from my past experience I have had pastors preach that as long as the Holy Spirit doesn't convict then it's all good. I have a big time disagreement with that line of thinking. Kinda nullifies the very word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan4257 Posted May 6, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 421 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2008 just from my past experience I have had pastors preach that as long as the Holy Spirit doesn't convict then it's all good. I have a big time disagreement with that line of thinking. Kinda nullifies the very word of God. Too right. The Holy Spirit can only convict to the extent that we are open to conviction. Not only that, for many if not most, it is not possible to know what spirit is the influence without cross checking with Holy Scripture, which seldom happens for those who are only looking for confirmation of what they already wish to do. One thing I do know for sure, that your "big time disagreement with that line of thinking" is a conviction of the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted May 6, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted May 6, 2008 This is what I think: If you put your focus on loving God and on loving others, everything else will fall into place. You don't need to be ridiculously legalistic to ask yourself "is what I'm doing showing my love for God and my neighbour, or is it unloving?" Real love for God and your neighbour puts others above oneself, makes one humble, and always seeks to serve God as well as possible and to know Him better...but it is all coming from a Spirit-filled desire to express one's love for God and for one's fellowman, not out of a desire to work oneself toward salvation (which is impossible and unnecessary). I recommend reading...well, pretty much all of Romans for a much better explanation of the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan4257 Posted May 6, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 421 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2008 Real love for God and your neighbour puts others above oneself, makes one humble, and always seeks to serve God as well as possible and to know Him better. The emphasis I put on what you say is that loving those we see in need, as if we were the person with the need, is how we love God. Or coming from the other side, we are loving God when we love that other person who is in need. Don't know for sure if that fits in with what you are saying but it sounds like it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 I'm not sure that your application/definition of "legalism" is correct. Legalism is a self-righteous interpretation which seeks to impose a man-made moral code upon others. This happens when morality gets confused with righteousness. Morality has more to do with a social acceptance than with obedience to God. In religious circles, it's usually a situation that might be a stronghold for a community. For instance, there must have been a time when any kind of dancing was considered a form of sexual temptation by the Baptist denomination so they decided to outlaw it altogether. This is a legalistic interpretation. It was justified by pointing to the kind of dancing that Herod's stepdaughter did which cost John the Baptist his head. But the truth is that there are 7 different hebrew words that can be translated as dancing and they applied only one of them to an english transaltion. It's the same with almost all kinds of temptation. Someone will have a stronghold so they think it is a stronghold for everyone and impose a legal code of prohibition against it and justify it with carefully chosen verses which ignore the greater context of the Word of God There are lots of examples of legalism (prohibitions against dancing, watching TV, drinking wine, long hair for men, short dresses for wemon, certain kinds of music or instrumentation, etc.) but none of them really have to do with obedience to God but instead pertain to a man-made morality. This is exactly what Paul is speaking of in these verses: Colossians 2:20-22 (King James Version) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Righteousness is showing love towards others. Liberty is being set free from sin. To define "freedom/liberty" as an escape from obeying the Law (instruction) of God...or to define obedience to God as legalism...would be the worst kind of tyranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serving God Posted May 6, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 13 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/02/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2008 There are no shades of gray when it comes to God, that's why it's either Heaven or Hell. The Holy Spirit was given to us by God because He knew we were going to need help along the way. His grace is also sufficient for us. I have learnt that God looks at the heart and it is all about the heart really. The bible says that anything you know is sin (by commission or omission) on your part, for you it is sin, period. For example, if I see a beggar on the street and everyone is ignoring him/her and I also do the same yet deep down in my heart the Holy Spirit is convicting me to go and buy the beggar lunch or a cup of tea, If I personally to do not yeild to that conviction, I have sinned on my part. It is the same with all sin it is all in the heart even before it ever gets physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan4257 Posted May 6, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 421 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2008 There are no shades of gray when it comes to God, that's why it's either Heaven or Hell. The Holy Spirit was given to us by God because He knew we were going to need help along the way. His grace is also sufficient for us. I have learnt that God looks at the heart and it is all about the heart really. The bible says that anything you know is sin (by commission or omission) on your part, for you it is sin, period. For example, if I see a beggar on the street and everyone is ignoring him/her and I also do the same yet deep down in my heart the Holy Spirit is convicting me to go and buy the beggar lunch or a cup of tea, If I personally to do not yeild to that conviction, I have sinned on my part. It is the same with all sin it is all in the heart even before it ever gets physical. And that speaks straight to my heart also. It is relatively easy to toss a coin into a hat but far less so to invite somebody to share a meal, or even to ask if the person is hungry and go and buy some food for him or her. And associated with those actions is the time it takes to carry them out. Time is usually the hardest to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts