The JEWS are the cause of all the world's evils

[Press Forward]

Can you provide one Scripture that states God's covenant with Abraham for his natural descendants is over?

Acts 3 NIV

22For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among his people.'

Completely cut off.......it is really sad...Even Moses told them..The New Testament repeats this over and over and over.

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

Jesus is a Jew, the disciples are Jews, Paul was a Jew. Israel received the hardening of hearts 2000 years ago right after they crucified Jesus Christ. It did allow the Gentiles in. The only part of Israel that matters is Jesus, his disciples, Paul and the other Jews that listened to them. At this time God split Israel in two. The Jewish Remnant (the way, christians) began. The Jewish Remnant took it to the world but first to the nation of Israel then to the world. Anybody that didn't listen to this Jewish Remnant whether Jews in Israel or Gentiles of the world will be completely cut off from eternal life. Now you are either a Child of God thru Jesus Christ or remain a child of satan. The worldly nation of Israel for 2000 years still insist Jesus wasn't the one and continue to practice Judaism. This Jewish Remnant sent the message around the world. And even with all that God has done with this Remnant still 2000 years later many don't want to accept what Jesus did for them.

If you can go to the nation of Israel and get them to repent for their sins, be reborn into the Spirit of Almighty God, have their name written in the Lamb's book of life, and get them delivered into eternal life thru Jesus Christ. All the power to ya. Then they can join the Jewish Remnant the chosen of Jesus Christ, his disciples, and all of his born again believers. Personally I don't care if I'm chosen for anything, I'm perfectly content being a child of God. Is there really a greater honor than that?

We are to love our enemies. God is kind to the wicked and ungrateful. That is y most people still have a breath to breathe. To someday come to know Jesus. The bible also puts much emphesis on taking care of your own. And I feel this is where we drop the ball. I'm more concerned about fellow brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ, then people that want nothing to do with Jesus Christ. And as much as these folks on this board our sure that the non -believing Israel is the apple of Gods eye and everybody should be building them up to win favor with God. I will be happy to help a few fellow believing brothers and sisters who the enemy has ripped apart and take my chances with my Father in Heaven.

It has nothing to do with Judaism so I'm not sure why you mention it?

That is what this post is all about Judaism. Israel wouldn't be in the state it is today if they would turn to Jesus. The King of the Jews who died on the Cross for all mankind. But either would Africa, India, China, etc. And America a supposedly Christian Nation should have studied the old Testament and learned from the nation of Israel because we are repeating a lot of their mistakes.

John 4

21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."

26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."

Learn lessons from the Old Testament...Learn about your spiritual, new eternal life in the New Testament. Press Forward not backward.

[nebula]

The bible also puts much emphesis on taking care of your own. And I feel this is where we drop the ball. I'm more concerned about fellow brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ, then people that want nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

Why is this an "either-or" issue with you? It isn't for me.

I have a heart for many things, many ministries, many peoples . . . one does not supercede the other. The "resoration of Israel" just happens to be one of them.

But what makes the Jew different is because when the natural branches are restored, as Paul spoke in Romans 11, something extra-ordinary is going to happen. If not for the people of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, we would not have the promise of Messiah nor the word of God for ourselves. They have a calling as a people that has yet to be fulfilled. And so we give them a special honor.

I recall a Native American drum ministry that gave honor to Israel - they played their drums to a song that sang of Jesus in their own native style of music in the Knesset! Were they dismissed for singing of Jesus? No! In fact, they were asked back because it blessed them so to have someone honoring them for a change! This is how we win souls.

[nebula]

Israel wouldn't be in the state it is today if they would turn to Jesus.

But then prophecy could not be fulfilled.

[Guest]

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:11-13

Israel wouldn't be in the state it is today if they would turn to Jesus.

But then prophecy could not be fulfilled.

So Close!

But..........................

Israel Wouldn't Be A State Today If It Wasn't For God Fulfilling Prophecy (1947)

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Isaiah 66:8

The Holy Spirit Broods Over The Descendants Of Jacob (Today)

And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

Ezekiel 37:8-9

The LORD Daily Adds Such As Should Be Saved (Today)

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Zechariah 13:9

For 25 Years I Was Vexed As I Saw The Killing Machines Forming Just As They Did In The '30's

God Gathered Me Into Fellowships Like Worthy Ministries Where I Was Reassured God Will Not Let His People Down

Now I Know What I Need To Do To Receive Rest And Comfort As I Watch And Weep Over The Travails Of The Jew (Whom I Dearly Love)...

Trust In THE WORD And Pray

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

Psalms 122:6

And Support Those Who Are In The Thick Of The Battle

The Jew Blesses My Soul To No End

Their God Is My God

Their Book Is My Book

Their LORD Is My LORD

Their Jerusalem Will Be My Jerusalem

Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) Is LORD

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

Amen

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

[nebula]

You got me there, Joe!

[nebula]

Can you provide one Scripture that states God's covenant with Abraham for his natural descendants is over?

Hebrews 8 NIV

6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:

"The time is coming, declares the Lord,

when I will make a new covenant

with the house of Israel

and with the house of Judah.

9It will not be like the covenant

I made with their forefathers

when I took them by the hand

to lead them out of Egypt,

because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,

and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.

10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel

after that time, declares the Lord.

I will put my laws in their minds

and write them on their hearts.

I will be their God,

and they will be my people.

11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,

or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'

because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest.

12For I will forgive their wickedness

and will remember their sins no more."[c]

13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

OK - let us look at this for a minute.

Which covenant is the Lord making obsolete? The Abrahamic covenant or the Mosaic covenant?

Jeremiah 31

31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

Clearly, the Lord is speaking of the Mosaic covenant, for this is the one made when the Lord "took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt."

Therefore, you cannot use this prophecy, which was quoted in Hebrews, to claim the Lord's covenant with Abraham was made null and void.

Galatians 4 NIV

Hagar and Sarah

21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.

24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

Again, the Law was under the Mosaic covenant, not the Abrahamic covenant.

So I ask again - which verse(s) show that the covenant made with Abraham was ever broken?

(Folks on this board believe the two covenants are Islam and Judaism, the two covenants are Judaism and Christianity. Children of God are focused on the spiritual. Many believe that Judaism Jews are chosen, when we know it is all about Jesus and the ones that accept him and live a life pleasing to Almighty God.. For the past 2000 years the practicing Judaism Jews have been and are in slavery because we all know Jesus came to set us free. And they denied the open invitation.)

(Most on this board believe they will be rewarded and be blessed by supporting and encouraging practicing Judaism Jews of Israel for continuing in Judaism and that Christianity and they can co-exist as they are........

This is a misinterpretation and misunderstanding of what we are saying and advocating.

Standing by Israel with unconditional love is not the same as encouraging them in practicing their denial of Jesus as Messiah.

By the way, did you know that one of us who is debating with you on this issue is an active evangelist to the Jews that Yeshua is their Mashiach?

I believe you are doing Judaism Jews a disfavor by telling them they are favored in Almighty Gods eyes even though they continue with Judaism and reject Jesus Christ as their Messiah.)

"The Lord disciplines those He loves."

Being favored does not mean that they can get away with disobedience. In fact, the higher the calling, the more intense the discipline.

But it is a discipline out of love, not vengeance.

2000 years ago I agree that Israel and the Jews were the chosen of the world...they were chosen to bring in the King of King, Lord of Lord, Jesus Christ into this evil world. That is y they are recognized in the gates of heaven. But the foundation is set by the disciples of Jesus Christ. And those Disciples are chosen and yes they were Jews. But the only chosen ones left in this world are the Children of Almighty God that came thru believing, repenting and living a life pleasing to Almighty God, thru Jesus Christ his Son. It doesn't matter what country you came from.

But there are still unfulfilled prophecies with regards to Israel.

The birth of Messiah and of the "Church" was not the end of their calling.

For example, have you read the prophecies about the Jews returning "from the north and from the south, the east and the west"? That prophecy was not fulfilled until the past few decades. For this prophecy did not match the return from Babylon. It does however match what has happened since the new nation of Israel has been established 60 years ago.

No, the Lord is not done with Israel, the "Jews".

[Guest yod]

2000 years ago I agree that Israel and the Jews were the chosen of the world...they were chosen to bring in the King of King, Lord of Lord, Jesus Christ into this evil world. That is y they are recognized in the gates of heaven. But the foundation is set by the disciples of Jesus Christ. And those Disciples are chosen and yes they were Jews. But the only chosen ones left in this world are the Children of Almighty God that came thru believing, repenting and living a life pleasing to Almighty God, thru Jesus Christ his Son. It doesn't matter what country you came from.

would you mind getting a pencil since I can't draw on a discussion board? I'll wait until you find one...

hhmmmm. OK? Got it?

Draw one big circle and then draw a small circle within it.

We'll call this graphic Exhibit A : THE BIBLICAL DEFINITION

Now draw 2 circles completely separate and make sure that one of them is "superior" (as defined in a gentile way) to the other.

We'll call this Exhibit B : THE GREEK DEFINITION

The assembly of the faithful in the bible was always considered to be the remnant of Israel (ALL jews who were of faith in Yeshua) and those gentiles who were joined to Israel through the King of the Jews...the God of Israel....the Messiah Yeshua.

This is the understanding that every author of the New Covenant scriptures had. Paul speaks of it quite clearly in many places. Eph 2, eph 3, romans 9, 10, & 11, 12. There are many other places but don't see any reason why those wouldn't be "enough" for a bible believing christian?

So the "church" as defined by the bible is the faithful remnant of jews and those gentiles who have joined themselves to Israel.

this is the picture you have in Exhibit A - the biblical definition.

Since He gave ALL the covenants to the jews and ALL the scriptures were entrusted to them and THEIR Messiah has paid the price to break down the wall of petition, then we are being brought near to THEIR covenants, scriptures, and Messiah. This is clearly explained in many palces and ways...adoption into THEIR family.....grafting into THEIR tree.

If we are not "in" Israel then we are not "in" Him either. He is not separated from Israel!!??

At His return all Israel will be saved and He will judge those who came against the tribes of Jaob quite severely. On that day I don't want to be found working against Him.

And, oh yea, Exhibit B?

Those are 2 circles completely separated

If this is how you see the relationship between Israel and "the church" then I say you have been misinformed by theology. You simply can not point to any passage where any Apostle even uses that perspective...much less says anything close to that.

You can only find that concept in post-biblical commentaries written by european "theologians".

[Guest shiloh357]

That is what I hate about these boards...I'm not into punishment and I hate to see anyone or anything punished..Son of Darkness is into punishment and destruction....if you read the post...... the bible says the Jews killed the author of Life...and killed many prophets of Jesus Christ....

No it doesn't. That is what you are reading into the text. YOU believe "the Jews" killed Jesus, even though the Bible clearly states Jesus' death was a sacrifice of Himself, and not a murder or an exuction or "killing."

To blame ANYONE for the death of Jesus is to insult the grace of God. Jesus made it very clear that He gave His life and that NO ONE (and that includes "the Jews") took His life from Him.

Jesus' death was a sacrifice. When we start pinning blame on anyone for His death, we diminish its worth. If Jesus was "killed" by the Jews, then His death was the product of a human agenda, and that would make Him a martyr and not a sacrifice. It would mean that man and not Jesus, was in control of the events surround His death.

Jesus was not "killed" by either Jew or Gentile. The cross was His goal, His agenda from the very beginning. Trying to pin the death of Jesus on the Jews is in contradiction to the words of Jesus is to call Jesus a liar.

As for the scriptures you offer to support your false assertion, what you are failing to notice is that while the Bible does not hold Jesus' enemies blameless for their willing participation in the events surrounding Jesus' death, neither does it hold an entire race of people responsible for His death. You are holding "the Jews" in masse responsible for Jesus' death, and that is a product of a misreading of what the apostles were saying.

Many are compromising our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by glorifying Israel.

We are not "glorifying Israel." We are blessing Israel because that is what God commanded us (that includes you) to do. You have chosen rather, to be disobedient. Blessing Israel is not an option for a Christian. It is command. The entire book of Romans was written to show Christians why they should be a blessing to Israel. the first 8 chapters of Romans explains how Gentile salvation was made possible (which was a big mystery in those days) and chapters 9, 10 and 11 are an appeal to the Gentiles that on the basis of what they have recieved via Israel, to be a blessing to Israel and to provoke them to jealousy. Instead of obeying the Bible, you have chosen to rebel and simply provoke the Jews and teach falsehoods that only reinforce Jewish unbelief.

The view that the Jews killed Jesus was part and parcel of the theological justification for the Holocaust AND it was also the justification for the endless persecutions for nearly two millennia against the Jews. Jews were regularly reminded every Easter for over a thousand years in Europe that they were the murderers of Christ and Jewish villages were burned and pillaged to remind the Jews of their "crime" against Jesus. I see that this backwards, bigoted view is still strongly held, as you have so aptly demonstrated by your posts.

The country of Israel welcomes Jesus Christ and Christians as long as they can continue practicing Judaism and leave Jesus on the back burner. I guess I'm the only one insulted by that.

Why does that "inuslt" you???

If they thought Jesus Christ was the Messiah, Judaism would have been replaced with Christianity.

Not really. Paul, Peter and the other apostles were kosher, Torah observant Jews even after they got saved, and secondly, Judaism did not exist when Christianity was born and therefore could not have been "replaced." Judaism did not come about until after the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. Judaism as we know it, is an adjustment to the destruction of the Temple.

I'm grateful for what Jesus did for me and he will always be glorified and put front and center in my sanctuary. They don't say they are waiting on Jesus Christ our Messiah....they say Messiah.

If you were really "glorifying Jesus" you would not hold the Jews in such horrible contempt. Jesus forgave His enemies, and did not hold them responsible for His death. He said they did not know what they were doing do you operate from a higher moral position than Jesus??? If Jesus did not hold them accountable for His death, what right do YOU have to do so???

If that make me evil, hateful, anti-semitic, and oh ya high minded...so be it. I feel it is more dangerous to put anything, anybody or any nation before Jesus Christ.

It is hateful, anti-Semitic and high-minded to feel that you can somehow operate from a value system that is superior to God's. He commands us to bless Israel and also promises judgment for those who refuse to. You have in advertantly placed yourself at odds with God on this issue, and it would be in your best interest to repent of your high-minded arrogance toward the Jews and Israel and bring yourself into line with Bible, seeking to be blessing to them as God has commnaded you. God cannot bless disobedience, particularly with something so fundamental to the Christian faith.

[Press Forward]

So I ask again - which verse(s) show that the covenant made with Abraham was ever broken?

Matthew 3:8-10 NIV

8Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 8:11-12 NIV

11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

The subjects of the kingdom are Jews who thought their Judaism was inherited passport for entrance into the kingdom. John the Baptist and Jesus explained it direct and to the point.

John 8:39-47 NIV

39"Abraham is our father," they answered.

"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would[a] do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does."

"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

The Children of the Devil

42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

This came directly from Jesus Christ.

John 15 NIV

The Vine and the Branches

1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Galatians 3:16 NIV

[nebula]

My question was:

Was the Covenant given to Abraham ever broken?

The Scriptures you gave do not show that Covenant broken.

"out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham"

If the Covenant were broken, why would God still raise children up for Abraham?