Old Earth...Truth or Lie ?

[BobTriez]

QUOTE

[Guest yod]

I'm much more interested in getting people to Christ than I am with the silly age of the earth debate

Now you are talking my language, Kimosabee!

I am a former atheist myself. What opened my eyes was the precise accuracy of prophetic writings. I wonder what SA thinks about that?

There is something VERY supernatural about this book called "The Holy Bible" which no other writings in the history of Earth can lay claim to.

[nebula]

Actually, the controversy with Galileo was his claim that the Earth was not the center of the universe, which did go against the passages in Scripture stating the sun "rises" and the sun "sets" and it travels across the sky ("coming forth from its chamber" I believe is how it goes).

And I do agree with SA on one thing: it sure is discouraging to see Christians fight tooth and nail for a young Earth, but when they are shown alternative ways of seeing how Gen. 1 can be interpreted or presented the scientific data for the Old Earth claims by scientist (which the Christians can't reasonably, in like detail, refute), they throw up their hands and say, "Well, it's not important, anyway. . . ."

Argh!

Yeah, well I hope you realize that by such attitude you are completely shutting off the scientific comunity from getting to know Christ.

So sad.

[BobTriez]

Yeah, well I hope you realize that by such attitude you are completely shutting off the scientific comunity from getting to know Christ.

So sad.

People are more quick to put faith in science than the Bible - that's what is sad.....all the time I hear the argument "maybe the earth is young and it's created to look old" or " maybe God used evolution to get to this point in time " How about this - 1 Peter 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Satan will do anything to fool us - anything If you deny he's active in today's world you are right where he wants you. I'll tell you my biggest beef with old age Earth theories ( and I really didn't want to get into this, but here goes...) Modern science says they've found remains of dead life dating back millions and millions of years. Romans 5:12 says that death entered this world through one man - Adam. Romans 8:19-22 says - 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time

This tells me that nothing died prior to the fall. And subsequent to the fall, creation also suffers. Following the genealogies in Genesis we can trace the fall of man back to about 6000 years. That means anything ( dead ) dating back prior to the fall of man simply is un Biblical. Why does God have to be the trickster in some cosmic game ? He created life not death...Satan is the one who been working so hard to bring mankind down since the start. And if I have to pick between my faith in science and my faith in the Bible, regardless of how the odds may seem stacked against me, I choose to follow the word of the Lord. If that offends - well, guess what, most the Bible does offend the non repentant doesn't it ?

In His service,

Bob

[Khristeeanos]

The Bible is the Word of God, and it states that there was no death before Adam, so there is no possible way that the earth is billions of years old.

I have spent hours and hours researching the origin of the Bible and its preservation and there is no way to explain its continued existance without God preserving it for us.

[Cerran]

NT. I Don't argue with idiots anymore

Edited May 18, 2004 by Cerran

[Guest arkon]

Try explaining the concept of a "billion" to someone around 100AD and they would have looked at you like you were nuts.

Would they?

How do you know this? Did this happen to you? Or is this one of your scientific facts?

Lets see if we can find any mention of a number like that from 100AD or earlier.

Gen 32:12 And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

Gen 41:49 And Joseph laid up grain as the sand of the sea, very much, until he left off numbering; for it was without number.

Isa 10:22 For though thy people, Israel, be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them shall return: a destruction is determined, overflowing with righteousness. The remnant is the 144,000 in revelation

Jer 33:22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured; so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Rom 9:27 And Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:

Heb 11:12 wherefore also there sprang of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of heaven in multitude, and as the sand, which is by the sea-shore, innumerable.

Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

I think its safe to say that they comprehended large numbers. At least as much as we do today.

[BobTriez]

This tells me that nothing died prior to the fall. And subsequent to the fall, creation also suffers. Following the genealogies in Genesis we can trace the fall of man back to about 6000 years. That means anything ( dead ) dating back prior to the fall of man simply is un Biblical. Why does God have to be the trickster in some cosmic game ? He created life not death...Satan is the one who been working so hard to bring mankind down since the start. And if I have to pick between my faith in science and my faith in the Bible, regardless of how the odds may seem stacked against me, I choose to follow the word of the Lord. If that offends - well, guess what, most the Bible does offend the non repentant doesn't it ?

If you are going to take Genesis literanlly then why don't you follow every passage of the bible literally? It seems foolish to cling to one passage literally and interpret another. You can't have it both ways, either you take the book as a whole literally word for word or you don't and you consider the context.

You also haven't taken into account the original audience of the bible who were superstious scientifically ignorant people. Try explaining the concept of a "billion" to someone around 100AD and they would have looked at you like you were nuts.

You want to know why "Creation Scientists" aren't accepted by the scientific community? because when they are presented with a direct contradiction they dissmiss it rather than going back and looking at the evidence and saying hmm, maybe I was wrong.

Any serious Christian should take the Bible at it's word ( 2 Timothy 3:16 ).

God isn't able to lie so I see no reason not to trust the genealogies as outlined in Genesis 5.

But, we'll take this step by step here.....

1. Adam was the first man ( 1 Cor 15:45 ) - Yes ?

2. Jesus created the Earth ( Colossians 1:16 ) - Yes ?

Since He created it, He should know what took place - right ?

3. Jesus said that at the beginning of creation man and women were created

Mark 10

6 "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female"

So we know that Jesus created the Earth and at the beginning of creation, He made them male and female ( see also Matthew 19:4 ) and we know that Adam was the first man.

We also know that through Adam, all sin entered the Earth and as a result of this sin, death entered the Earth ( Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 ). Ergo - nothing died prior to Adam's sin. A Christian can put reliable faith now that anything that is purported to have lived prior to Adam's fall is un Biblical....now all we need to do is figure out how long ago Adam was. The Bible contains a genealogical record from Adam to Jesus, and specifies the age of each man at the time he had his first son. Our existing calendar is associated with the life of Jesus (BC/AD), therefore, the age of our world can be determined by adding the ages-up the ages in this lineage. According to the Biblical chronology the earth is almost exactly 6000 years old, and 4500 years ago the flood completely destroyed all terrestrial life except those saved by God through his instructions to Noah.

It's all there folks, go look for yourself. I know it takes faith; I'm not denying that at all. I trusted in science myself until I looked into the matter and saw that they simply are wrong. Either the Bible is wrong or scientists are wrong....there's no other way. Believe whom you want to....for me, I choose the Bible.

Did you know that Adam and Noah's father were alive for 56 years together ?

Did you know that Noah's son Shem lived long enough to know Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ?

All you need to do is figure the years out ( which are provided for us )....that means Abraham could potentially have talked to Shem who's grandfather could have spoken with Adam ? Amazing ( IMHO )....that means pre-fall stories could have been told to Abraham via only 3rd person contact ? Think about it - if Abraham talked to Shem and Shem's grandpa spoke with Adam....some pretty cool stories I'll bet !

My point ? it's all in the Bible....read for yourself.

God bless,

Bob

[Bread_of_Life]

Bob,

This tells me that nothing died prior to the fall. And subsequent to the fall, creation also suffers. Following the genealogies in Genesis we can trace the fall of man back to about 6000 years. That means anything ( dead ) dating back prior to the fall of man simply is un Biblical.

I've heard this one before. I'm no biblical scholar of course, and I don't want to get too involved in biblical argument because I am really here to explain the scientific data. However, I have heard one answer to this that you might not have considered.

What if God created Adam and Eve's physical form through evolution, then, once the physical creation was perfected, God suspended death and gave Adam and Eve a soul and spirit. Then, when Adam and Eve sinned against God, their spirits died, and death re-entered the world as it had been when it was being perfected?

I know that there is no explicit backing for this in the bible - but I also know that the bible does not explicitely rule it out either.

Anyway, no matter what the bible says, I (along with every single other credible scientist that I know) am certain beyond any reasonable doubt that things lived and died as long back as 3.7 billion years ago, long before man ever walked the earth, and before all the Genesis genealogies. There are literally vast swathes of evidence that this is the case, in fact, all the paleontological evidence we encounter confirms this fact. So, essentially, you're gonna have to get used to it, and accomodate it into your religion somehow - and if you can't, then it's time to dump the religion, cos the fossils arn't going to disappear.

[nebula]

Did you know that Adam and Noah's father were alive for 56 years together ?

Did you know that Noah's son Shem lived long enough to know Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ?

. . . . And in between Noah and Abraham was enough time to establish several powerful countries,

with well-established cities,

with distinct cultures,

and distinct religious dieties and practices,

who all completely forgot the Lord God,

who had no knowledge they were all related to one another . . . .

Sorry, don't see this happening in about 350 years or whatever it was.

It makes a whole lot more sense to figure there are missing generations in the record. Consider, if the human race really is 70,000 years old - it makes total sense that there would be such missing information! I mean, who could remember all those years and all those people?