Old Timer Posted May 21, 2004 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Israel will one day, according to Scripture see who the Messiah is. Unfortunately, it will not be because of the Church. The Church has done little to bring the gospel to the Jews, and in many cases has driven them from it. That is just the cold hard facts. Shiloh, great posts. Fortunately there are a few Evangelical groups that are supporting Israel today; Friends of Israel, Midnight Call and a few others. I think there is a growing awareness of this by the Jewish community in the U.S. and in Israel. It is still too little and probably too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoldlyProclaimingChrist Posted June 19, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 684 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2004 I believe God setting aside Israel has nothing to do with Abraham or the covenant......remember everything is all about God. I believe He chose Israel because it's the tiniest nation yet the Lord has done miraculous things with that little state - namely their mighty army which hasn't been defeated!!!!!! A tiny state such as Israel winning every battle, war etc. when the odds are against them brings God all the glory because they were grossly outnumbered and should have lost - yet the Lord was with them fighting with them all this time. It's never about us - always about Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasandra Posted June 19, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 4 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/05/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2004 Shiloh...the chapter you refer to, Genesis 15 , shows two crossing between the animals...HaShem as represented by the smoking pot and another represented as the flaming torch. G-d did not allow Abram to cross between the animals of blood covenant for as you pointed out he knew man would break covanant....but he did have another represent man in the covanant. In other early jewish writing a flaming torch is used to represent the messiach so it is quite possible he was meant here. And it would make sense with your belief of Yeshua as messiah who died in our place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I believe God setting aside Israel has nothing to do with Abraham or the covenant......remember everything is all about God. Boldy, I am sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. Whenever God dealt with Israel he constantly reminded them of His Covnenant. For example, the Exodus was about God remembering his Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God is a covnenant keeping God. God makes it clear that His covenant with Israel is eternal. God must deal with Israel on that basis, or otherwise the nations will call God a liar. It is about God, in that God will not suffer His Name to be profaned among the nations. He is keeping His covenant with Israel to bring glory to His Name among all peoples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoldlyProclaimingChrist Posted June 19, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 684 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 19, 2004 I'm not saying his covenant is unimportant - I'm speaking of why He chose Israel to begin with - before Abraham, before the covenant, before the world began. His choosing Israel for His glory is not the result of anything because He foreknew everything. Just like He chose His elect before the world began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 I'm speaking of why He chose Israel to begin with - before Abraham, before the covenant, before the world began. His choosing Israel for His glory is not the result of anything because He foreknew everything. Just like He chose His elect before the world began. But God Himself does not claim to base His dealings with Israel on what He decided before the the Covenant, and before Abraham. He Himself states that He will fulfill His promises to Israel on the basis of His Covenant. In Ezekiel 36 God says plainly that it is His Name that is at stake. His Name is at stake because He made a Covenant with Abraham and with the Children of Israel. He must keep His promises or else His Name will be profaned. It all comes back to the Covenant, no matter which way you slice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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