Seven reasons why people hate reason

[nebula]

I found this interesting, for although the set-up of the article favors reason as the be-all and end-all (as it seems several people here favor), the explanations show that it really isn't.

(Not to deny its usefulness myself, but is it correct to make reason the final authority on an issue?)

To dig deeper into each point made, click here for the article. It provides links to other articles and videos presentations of these arguments.

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Seven reasons why people hate reason

From religious fundamentalism to pseudoscience, it seems that forces are attacking the Enlightenment world view

[Hunterpoet]

Well, i don't like reason for the reason it is always is so unreasonable.

[EricH]

This article is a prime example of the black or white fallacy, e.g. either one is for reason or must discard all reason. However, the use of reason in the promotion of clarity of thought is an essential ingredient in the Christian's tool box. Otherwise, we have no way to "test all things and hold fast to that which is good." Willfully discarding the ability to reason leaves us open to being "blown about by every wind of doctrine."

My intial pass at the article tells me that are not saying reason is bad or should not be used. They are saying that there are other things to consider in addition to reason. But they are also not saying that reason should be violated or abandoned. The problem is the full articles are not available for free, so it is impossible to get at the full meaning of what is being said by each author.

[HisMindinme]

Not to deny its usefulness myself, but is it correct to make reason the final authority on an issue?

God, Himself, is the final authority on ALL matters and issues. Even Jesus did not turn to His own thinking, but deferred to what He heard and saw with the Father (Joh 5:30 I can do nothing of My own self. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of the Father who has sent Me.)

Placing human logic and reasoning capacity above all is its own fallacy; a self-deception. Doing so ignores the basic state of people: Our minds are enslaved to the lusts of our flesh. The basic mechanism is already trapped, so a simple denial of religion and God is not enough to be set free from the mechanism of enslavement.

Only the reasoning and Mind of God the Father, Son and Spirit is truly FREE from enslavement to human lust. When we set aside what we think for what He Thinks, then we're on the road to true freedom and a reason that is above our own. At this point, we enter into a place of what Jesus said would be the testimony of those led of the Spirit.

Joh 3:8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone having been generated from the Spirit.

The Spirit of God (Mind of God, Thinking of God -- in the third person of God) in us places us higher than humanistic logic and reason. While reason is a powerful tool, it is also deceptive. In human terms, it offers its own form of salvation without God. Humanistic reason and logic says, "You don't need God. You're capable to make your own choices, for your own reasons, by your own power, by your own sight and no one can judge you but you." <-- which seems true until we start talking about law and society. As soon as we introduce society and law between people, then we replace reason with morality (even if we think the morality is reasonable). There MUST be a basis for agreement. There is no way for us to break the need for God, for morality, for right and wrong, for justice and injustice -- pure reason and logic collapse upon themselves and human beings are as insane as ever!

THE answer presented by the Word of God (gospel) is A) The forgiveness of Christ for our state and ways and B) The GIFT of the Mind of God, Spirit of God imparted within us, for us to use in this life in place of the enslaved mind, which put us in the position of needing A) and B) in the first place.

The Mind of God, Spirit of God, Mind of Christ in us is NOT black and white, but is above black and white as we see it. The Mind of God and His Thoughts in us and available to us, transcends human thought and the human mind and breaks the shackles of enslavement of our mind and thoughts from the lusts of our body.

Thus, there are some answers in life from the Mind and Word of God, which are fairly simple and straight-forward. Others, require prayerfulness, seeking God, reading His Word and looking for the Mind and Thoughts of God, rather than our interpretation of God. Thus, the Lord will not be placed in a human mental box. God also defies human logic and reason. God confounds and confuses our reason and our logic because in our logic and reason are already the seeds of blindness and enslavement. The very nature of our enslavement makes us blind and in our blindness we are delusional and incapable of seeing the truth as God sees it. Thus, comes the need for faith and trust.

Bottom line for me is: Reason and Logic are a self-delusional lie ending in the same trapped place as any thought of any human mind, including my own. I say together with Paul:

Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss because of Christ.

Php 3:8 But, no, rather I also count all things to be loss because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them to be trash, that I might gain Christ

...

Php 3:18 For many walk as hostile to the cross of Christ, of whom I often told you, and now even weeping I say it,

Php 3:19 whose end is destruction, whose god is the belly [lusts and appetites], and who glory in their shame, the ones thinking earthly things.

I encourage you to exchange your earthly thoughts and thinking, which are based on and enslaved to the lusts of your flesh -- set your focus and affections on the Mind of Christ, the Spirit (Mind) of God so that you will grow in the scope and exercise of the Thoughts of God in you (The Mind of Christ in you).

I encourage you as well to explore how the chief and primary message of Christ was two-fold: A) Forgiveness and B) The Spirit of God IN US and for us to choose BOTH A) and B) in place of living life in and by a mind and thoughts enslaved to the lusts of our flesh!

Finally -- this is not about our will even if we know what God thinks about something. It is NOT enough to just know what He Thinks, but to know His direction and will. We set aside our will and our intention for His. This is what Jesus was communicating at its core in the scritpure quoted above. Jesus later repeats this in the garden as He faces crucifixion; "Nevertheless, NOT My will, but Yours be done." If Jesus as Lord and King submitted Himself to the Father, choosing the Father's will over His own, how much more ought we to be of this mind ourselves?

Thus, it is our will set aside for His coupled with our thoughts set aside for His where we truly enter into the place of safety and friendship with God. Our will is not His will. Our thoughts are not His Thoughts. Our resulting ways are not His Ways. Thus, in order to get to His ways we must set aside our will and thoughts and take up His will and His Thoughts to ourselves. We must follow Jesus in this pattern if we're to be like Christ. This is what is means to be a Christian (like-Christ).

Paul agrees with this over and over. Peter and the other apostles as well. All share the same testimony, where they put aside what they think and will for what He Thinks and Wills. I pray we all grow in this measure.

[HisMindinme]

I once had a professor tell me that whenever I spot a faulty assumption, step on it and kill it. The faulty assumption in this case is the idea that logic (or reason) and faith are mutually exclusive. They are not. They are complementary.

You appear to be asserting I believe reason and logic are not congruent with faith. No where have I stated logic and reason are mutually exclusive of faith. What I have stated is humanistic logic and reason are rooted in the same broken humanity as anything else that pours out of the human mind devoid of faith. The ONLY logic and reason having worth is the logic and reason of God Himself.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

God is VERY much about reason, but not that reason stemming from and born of an enslaved mind.

1Co 1:19 For it has been written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will set aside the understanding of the understanding ones." Isa. 29:14

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? Where the scribe? Where the lawyer of this world? Did God not make the wisdom of this world foolish?

1Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom did not know God, God was pleased through the foolishness of preaching to save the ones believing.

1Co 1:22 And since Jews ask for a sign, and Greeks seek wisdom,

1Co 1:23 we, on the other hand, preach Christ crucified (truly an offense to Jews, and foolishness to Greeks),

1Co 1:24 but to the called out ones, both to Jews and to Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God;

1Co 1:25 because the foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and the weak thing of God is stronger than men.

1Co 1:26 For you see your calling, brothers, that there are not many wise according to flesh, nor many powerful, not many wellborn.

1Co 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world that the wise might be put to shame, and God chose the weak things of the world so that He might put to shame the strong things.

1Co 1:28 And God chose the low-born of the world, and the despised, and the things that are not, so that He might bring to nothing the things that are,

1Co 1:29 so that no flesh might glory in His presence.

The REASON and LOGIC I am "deriding" (putting down) is the wisdom (reasoning) of the world. There is a wisdom, a reason that is OF GOD. That wisdom is to have the Mind of God, the Spirit of God through the work and person of Jesus Christ -- to the laying aside of our mind, thoughts, emotions, wisdom, reason, logic and such that is based in, on and from the lusts of our flesh.

If your assertion is as it appears then what you have asserted is false. If your assertion is false, then your conclusions from it are false as well. Yet, this is not about me being right. This is about God being right. I am not right. I am a man. I was born a fool and I am foolish, He alone is wise. My mind, my logic, my reasoning are base and bound, enslaved and captive to the lusts of my flesh -- His are NOT! So, to Him I cling and to what He offers me of His Spirit to His own work, purpose and glory is what matters and counts. And not for me only, but all those who the Lord calls and who call upon His name.

You and I are of the same lineage and heritage: sinners. If you want to kill something dead, start by living from His Spirit and killing the desires, lusts and appetites of your flesh. I will do likewise.

Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is the ways of death.

Pro 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is the ways of death.

There is a way, there is logic, there is reason that SEEMS right to a MAN, but the end of it is the ways of death. How can you tell the reason of God from the reason of men? What yardstick and what measure do you use that is true?

[HisMindinme]

I once had a professor tell me that whenever I spot a faulty assumption, step on it and kill it. The faulty assumption in this case is the idea that logic (or reason) and faith are mutually exclusive. They are not. They are complementary.

Oh yes -- your professor was a man.

Joh 2:23 And as He was in Jerusalem, at the Passover, at the Feast, many believed into His name, seeing the miracles which He did.

Joh 2:24 But Jesus Himself did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all,

Joh 2:25 and because He had no need that anyone should witness concerning man, for He knew what was in man.

Again -- your professor was merely a man. I am merely a man. You are merely a man.

[HisMindinme]

I once had a professor tell me that whenever I spot a faulty assumption, step on it and kill it. The faulty assumption in this case is the idea that logic (or reason) and faith are mutually exclusive. They are not. They are complementary.

There is a way, there is logic, there is reason that SEEMS right to a MAN, but the end of it is the ways of death. How can you tell the reason of God from the reason of men? What yardstick and what measure do you use that is true?

What is the objective standard against which a Christian measures anything?

You answer with a question because you want to play a game. The game you play is emotionally based. It is driven in flesh and lust. I am not here to divide with you or to be disunified IF you and I have the Spirit of God within us. I will not divide for my part. Neither will I take part in the feeding of your flesh or mine by continuing the debate. I have said what I have said, written what I have written. Understand it or not. There is enough in what I have written.

[nebula]

And that folks is a perfect example of the OP!

[HisMindinme]

And that folks is a perfect example of the OP!

OP????

[nebula]

OP means Original Post (sometimes it means Original Poster, but in this context it is the original post).