SWAT team honoured for raid on wrong house

[David of Derby]

Sorry David...in complete disagreement with you here. These police officers went into a home that they were told housed a violent criminal. They then came under fire with 2 officers getting hit by shotgun schrapnel. Because of their professionalism and calm under fire...this family walked out of the house without ANY injuries. This was NOT a long drawn out gun battle. I'm not exactly sure what you expected the officers to do differently. It sounds to me like you think they should have killed the guy...which is NEVER the mindset. I can guarantee you that these officers would have won this battle had the guy not surrendered when he did.

Also...its important to point out that all 8 officers were probably not involved in the gunfight. Two, maybe three, at most. The others were more than likely clearing the rest of the house, covering retreat access, and possibly even at the back of the house. Based on reports the police identified themselves to the mans two son's who began yelling at their father to stop shooting at the police. Thats when the man put down his gun. It is highly unlikely that this "Rambo" faced 8 Swat team members all at once. This was a very short gun fight, not very many rounds were fired.

I just think it is highly unfair and unjustified to attack these officers for doing their jobs well. Everyone of them was probably very upset at the situation. I know most of you think of police as cold-blooded killers with attitude problems...but the reality is that stuff like this effects them on a deep level. They were probably very upset at the idea that they could have killed an innocent victim...or that one of them could have been killed in this foul-up.

Personally, I think the man should be proud of himself. He protected his home, and his family and was still focused enough to realize it was the police and stop shooting and lay on the ground. Maybe the police dept. should give him a medal too...along with a sizeable check!

When you're an armed response officer and you're fired upon, you're trained to return fire and nuetralise the assailant. That means putting them down in the shortest possible time so they're no longer a threat to you, your comrades and the public at large. Unfortunately these armed officers were in the wrong house, but the right action was to kill the householder immediately upon his opening fire. The right action for the householder was to threaten the "intruders" with his shotgun until he was either forced to fire or the police, that his wife had called, arrived to take charge. He shouldn't have fired on the intruders before working out what was going on. If the armed cops had been as competent as you claim he wouldn't have lived through that mistake - which would have been tragic, but just that, a mistake. On his part.

[Axxman]

When you're an armed response officer and you're fired upon, you're trained to return fire and nuetralise the assailant. That means putting them down in the shortest possible time so they're no longer a threat to you, your comrades and the public at large. Unfortunately these armed officers were in the wrong house, but the right action was to kill the householder immediately upon his opening fire. The right action for the householder was to threaten the "intruders" with his shotgun until he was either forced to fire or the police, that his wife had called, arrived to take charge. He shouldn't have fired on the intruders before working out what was going on. If the armed cops had been as competent as you claim he wouldn't have lived through that mistake - which would have been tragic, but just that, a mistake. On his part.

Partially true. You are also trained to KNOW where your rounds are going. You don't just blindly fire into walls and rooms hoping you hit a target. The goal is NEVER to kill. Even after being fired upon. Now, if killing is the only means of protecting yourself, or the community...or of ending the scenario...then it is justified. But it is never the goal. If those officers hadn't of kept their cool they undoubtably would have unloaded their weapons and probably would have killed the man, and his wife. Then we could have had a cop-bashing thread about how officers fired 250 rounds into the wrong house and killed a couple of people. The police just can't win I guess.

I do agree with you that the homeowners "shoot first, ask questions later" response needs to be addressed. Kid breaks a glass in the kitchen in the middle of the night trying to get a drink...trudges upstairs to his parents room to get his mom's help...and daddy's ready with the shotty!!

[David of Derby]

I refuse to believe armed officers in the States are trained to go for wounding shots - that's stupid. When you're in a firefight you put the other guy down. You may not want to kill him but an incapacitating shot just can't be relied on, for lots of reasons. It's the double-tap in the body T, I'm afraid, after the old "armed police, do exactly as I say!" warning gets shouted out. When he fires, he's had his chance.

[Guest man]

I do agree with you that the homeowners "shoot first, ask questions later" response needs to be addressed. Kid breaks a glass in the kitchen in the middle of the night trying to get a drink...trudges upstairs to his parents room to get his mom's help...and daddy's ready with the shotty!!

There's a big difference between the sound of a glass breaking on the kitchen floor and the sound of a window being smashed and a door kicked in.

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MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO)

It is now just after midnight on Dec. 16. Yee Moua is watching television while her husband and six kids are safe in their beds.

Strange sounds, including breaking glass, frighten her. She thinks it is violent criminals so she calls 911 while her husband wakes up and grabs his shotgun.

Vang Khang, Moua's husband, fires three shots from the second floor bedroom. The intruders fire back more than 20 rounds through the door. It's recorded on a 911 phone call tape.

On the same tape, men can be heard yelling "Get to the floor!" and "Where's the gun?"

It turns out that the intruders are not criminals. They are members of the MPD's SWAT team hunting for Jermaine Brown's guns at the wrong house. Officers take Khang into custody and search his bullet-riddled home for weapons.

His wife, Moua, can be heard pleading with the officers to tell her what happened.

Police see lots of family photos and Hmong decorations in the Khang home. However, the only gun they find is the shotgun Khang used to protect his family.

That night a police spokesman defends the raid in which two officers were hit. Their protective gear prevented them from getting hurt.

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Maybe they should think about putting Vang Khang on the SWAT team.

He fires 3 shots.....hits 2.

They fire 20 shots.....hit nothing.

[Guest shiloh357]

I refuse to believe armed officers in the States are trained to go for wounding shots - that's stupid. When you're in a firefight you put the other guy down. You may not want to kill him but an incapacitating shot just can't be relied on, for lots of reasons. It's the double-tap in the body T, I'm afraid, after the old "armed police, do exactly as I say!" warning gets shouted out. When he fires, he's had his chance.

Sorry Derby, but a good friend of mine is in law enforcement and he has told me on a number of occasions that they always are under orders to use the minimum amount of force necessary to neutralize a threat.

Deadly force is ALWAYS the last resort when ALL other measures have been exhausted or the immediate threat demands it. They are trained to react to a situation with only the level of force necessary depending on the given situations.

That does not mean that individual law enforcement don't overstep their boundaries and violate the rules they were trained to uphold. And they should be held accountable for that.

The truth is that an incapacitating shot, more often than not, is all that is needed to break the will of an criminal to fight back, unless he is on a mind-altering drug.

[nebula]

Maybe they should think about putting Vang Khang on the SWAT team.

He fires 3 shots.....hits 2.

They fire 20 shots.....hit nothing.

[Axxman]

I refuse to believe armed officers in the States are trained to go for wounding shots - that's stupid. When you're in a firefight you put the other guy down. You may not want to kill him but an incapacitating shot just can't be relied on, for lots of reasons. It's the double-tap in the body T, I'm afraid, after the old "armed police, do exactly as I say!" warning gets shouted out. When he fires, he's had his chance.

Sorry Derby, but a good friend of mine is in law enforcement and he has told me on a number of occasions that they always are under orders to use the minimum amount of force necessary to neutralize a threat.

Deadly force is ALWAYS the last resort when ALL other measures have been exhausted or the immediate threat demands it. They are trained to react to a situation with only the level of force necessary depending on the given situations.

Good job Shiloh...thats practically right out of the training manual.

In fact...normally the use of force is on a sliding scale. Thats means if the subject progresses up to deadly force...then the police are justified in responding with deadly force. However...if the subject then regresses down the force options...then officers have to respond in kind.

[Axxman]

There's a big difference between the sound of a glass breaking on the kitchen floor and the sound of a window being smashed and a door kicked in.

Maybe they should think about putting Vang Khang on the SWAT team.

He fires 3 shots.....hits 2.

They fire 20 shots.....hit nothing.

Hey man...

It wasn't my intention to disparage the family...or the guy protecting his home. I guess I gotta take my own advice and not assume. I might not have reacted any differently. Its always easier to say "I woulda done this, or that..." LOL

I sure hope the guy got two hits with a shotty in that narrow hallway. That must have been a heck of a surprise for the officers going up the stairs...whoooo boy!!! BTW...did you see the center mass of bullet holes in the bedroom? Probably 12-15 holes in a perfect circle directly at the top of the stairs.

Scary stuff...but thats gonna be one heck of a payday for the family.

[georgesbluegirl]

I agree with Axxman. The fault is with whomever bungled the information that sent the Swat team to the wrong house. But the fact that no one was killed should speak volumes to the discipline of the team.

Unfortunately, the department truly ought to compensate the family for the damage done at minimum.

I agree that it's probably not the fault of the guys they put on the ground, but I don't think the team itself should receive honors for the situation, no matter how well they handled it. They may have done a good job assessing the situation, but it's rather poor form to pat them on the back for what was ultimately a screw-up, no matter how you slice it.

[Axxman]

I agree that it's probably not the fault of the guys they put on the ground, but I don't think the team itself should receive honors for the situation, no matter how well they handled it. They may have done a good job assessing the situation, but it's rather poor form to pat them on the back for what was ultimately a screw-up, no matter how you slice it.

Had they not come under fire...and two of them been shot...I'm sure they would not have gotten the recognition. However, in very intense, life and death situations you rely on those officers to be in control and professional...and these guys did that.

Being in law enforcement is largely a thankless job. You rarely are appreciated for the life you live (and the one you don't.) What these officers received was nothing more than an official "Thank You" from their boss, on a really fancy piece of paper, with an official seal and signature. While there was a definite screw-up somewhere along the line...there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with a Police Chief who wants to recognize the bravery, professionalism, and hard work of the police officers who could have died that night. Also...anytime an officer is shot in the line of duty...he will be awarded.

BTW...the Police Chief also went personally to the family and apologized and promised to repair the damage done to their home by the police. The Chief also assured the family that they had done nothing wrong (media speculated the man might be charged) and that a thorough investigation would be completed.