David of Derby

Could I please be contacted by a moderator or admin? I’ve tried sending PMs, to no avail.

What’s covered by the etc?

I’ve seen people her with the word “servant” under their user names. What does this mean?

Not sure what point you're making about disabled people being healed and charismatic believers. Are they right or wrong? I think opinions are varied on the idea of entering Heaven when we die. It was explained to me, admittedly by Jehovah's Witnesses, who can barely be considered Christian since they deny the Trinity, that the Bible doesn't actually state that we enter Heaven when we die. I was told it states that, if I remember correctly, 144,000 "righteous Jews" will ascend to Heaven on the second coming of Christ, but that everyone else will rise again to live in a perfect earth, free from disease, suffering and death. Are you saying that in such a perfect world, people might still be disabled but it wouldn't matter any longer?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48054113 I read the above article earlier today. It's pretty unusual to see a "feature" article on the BBC regarding anything to do with Christianity, so I clicked on it. As usual, it's fairly critical of Christians (this is the BBC, after all) but it has some interesting theological points. I don't think any of them are really valid, but I was intrigued enough to want to log on and see what others thought. Firstly, to my mind the idea that "God is disabled" and uses a "wheelchair" is laughable. I can forgive the 15-year-old wheelchair user for wanting to interpret the Old Testament passage that way, but it's ludicrous for a consecrated priest to take this view. Apart from the obvious, that God is spirit and doesn't need to physically move around the world, the idea that God is disabled is simply contrary to all understanding of God's omnipotence and perfection. How can the almighty creator of Heaven and earth be in any way disabled? He is literally all-powerful. Also, the suggestion that the wounds of Christ are some kind of disability is, at best, a badly-flawed understanding of the Passion narrative and, at worst, blasphemous. To suggest that the marks of Christ's suffering on behalf of the world are a disability is just insane. Jesus was no less all-powerful when He rose from the grave, wounds or not. The wounds are there as symbols of His victory over sin and death. I also take exception to the idea that if Christ were walking around the modern world He wouldn't "pity" a disabled person He met and want to heal them. Of course He would want to heal them. They're suffering, in pain, or otherwise restricted in living life, and Jesus came to give abundant life. I've known plenty of disabled people and I don't think a single one of them would have refused to be healed, fully and perfectly, if Christ has stood in front of them and offered it. The article talks a lot about blindness. I believe that human beings were given eyes to see and appreciate the beauty and glory of God's creation. A blind person may be able to live a full and happy life, but they're missing so much. They can't see the beauty of a flower or a sunset or a rainbow, all the wonderful things God gave us that don't have to be there. The light from the sun refracts through the earth's atmosphere the way it does because God chose for that to be the case. He set the laws of physics in full knowledge of what He was doing. A blind person might be told about the glorious colours the setting sun makes, but they can't experience it. Would Jesus offer them their sight, in today's world? Of course! Jesus wants them to live and live abundantly. To my mind this article is typical of the British media and the BBC in particular, and demonstrates nothing but pride. The disabled people quoted as saying they want to be disabled in Heaven - just pride. They're proud of their disability, and perhaps they're right to be proud of how they've coped with it, but to want to be disabled? If I remember correctly, when we're resurrected at the second coming of Christ we'll be given new, perfect bodies, like Christ's glorious body. How can a new and perfect body be disabled? Isn't it sinful pride to want to reject this restoration brought by God? I particularly dislike the discussion of Jesus' healing miracles as "fixing" disabled people and suggesting that this is wrong. It's suggesting that Christ went around arrogantly "fixing" these "broken" people and doing it to show off. I find that suggestion pretty offensive, and it clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding of Christ's ministry. He healed the sick out of love and compassion. Yes, the article acknowledges that these people would be totally marginalised in ancient society and reduced to living on charity, but it's completely wrong to say this was done to "showcase" Jesus' power. The Gospel accounts of miracles help unbelievers to see the power of God, but that's not the same as showing off. How can limited, ignorant humans understand Divine love and power? Performing a miracle gets the message across far quicker than sermons and parables, for sure, but did any of the healed people get angry and say they were fine as they were and they didn't need to be fixed? No, they were amazed at the love and power of God and went off praising the Lord. On the point of Christians coming over and essentially demanding to pray for disabled people, I suppose it must happen to prompt this article, but surely that's just rude? Has anyone here had any experience of this kind of thing? I've prayed for a disabled friend of mine, with her full knowledge and gratitude, but I didn't need to stand over her and "lay hands" on her. I prayed for her privately, alone, at home, and told her about it later. We're commanded to pray for others and we know the effectiveness of prayer on behalf of someone we love, but are Christian people really imposing on perfect strangers like this? What are your thoughts, brothers and sisters?

Thanks Joe. Anyone have any more?

I'm sure you've all seen the motivational posters put up in corporate offices, and I'm sure you've all seen the "demotivational posters" around the internet taking the mickey out of them. You've probably also seen the atheistic ones making the rounds on facebook and the like. You've probably also seen the ones that are a photo of some famous person with an atheistic quote attached to them displayed. What I'm looking for is Christian versions of these, with photos or images of famous Christians and pro-Christian quotes. Or the "demotivational poster" variety with an image, caption and sub-caption, taking a pro-Christian view. Can anyone point me to such things online?

I carried a lot of guilt around with me for some years for a sin I committed a long time ago. When I went on pilgrimage to the Holy Land, on the morning of the day we visited Bethlehem, I felt very powerfully moved to ask my parish vicar, who was leading our parish group on the trip (there was another, larger group led by another priest with us) to sit down with me and hear my confession. We found a space at the back of the Roman Catholic part of the Basilica of the Nativity and I confessed what I'd done all those years ago. The vicar went through the absolution ritual (no, I don't need to hear any more about how ritual is a barrier to God, etc etc from you lot) and told me to read the section of Luke's Gospel that covers Christ's birth, instead of the Catholic tradition of giving a penitence, since I'm not Catholic. I found this very helpful and I was able to let go of a lot of the guilt for what I'd done. I know God forgives me my sin without the vicar putting his hands on my head, but the act of confessing it aloud to another Christian was very therapeutic for me. I would suggest you do the same. If you're of a denomination that doesn't have ordained clergy or anything similar just a brother or sister Christian would be equally useful. Confession helped me, anyway. I hope you're able to relieve your guilt over this incident.

What I mean by saying the ritual component is important is that it's important for human psychology. None of it matters in the least to God. What does God care if you bow or genuflect before the altar of a church before leaving the building? Of course He doesn't care about that. That sort of thing ceased being important with Christ upon the Cross. It does matter to us, though. It's comforting to us to show reverence for something Holy. It's comforting for us to say our prayers before bed, whether or not that's some rambling discourse about your personal issues or a dozen repetitions of the Hail Mary prayer. You're still talking to God, are you not? Your thoughts are focused on Him. Does God need words in human language to know our hearts? If repeating some phrase over and over helps you to focus on God then surely that is good and profitable to you? If it doesn't help you as an individual, then fling it far from you. For myself I find the ritual component of worship useful. Yes, we address the minister as "father," that's tradition. Doesn't mean we think the priest is God or that he's an idol we worship. Curiously enough, we're a bit more mature in faith than that.

Some of us like ceremony. The ritual component of worship is important.

I don't think there's a problem with the church I go to. I think the problem is with me. There have been many times when I've found the services at St. Matthew's very moving. A good example of this was Easter Saturday this year. There was a very solemn Mass on the Saturday evening, about halfway through which the Ressurection is proclaimed for the first time in the liturgical year. All the lights are out and the organ and choir are providing very solemn music when the lights are brought up and the organ plays a joyous refrain. You just feel your heart lift at the Good News as the presiding priest says "Hallelujah! Christ is Risen!" It really is tremendously moving. The Midnight Mass is always very moving as well.

Several people have given chapter and verse references to Bible passages relevent to this issue. I'll only add that, just as those passages tell us, we were promised that we'd be persecuted for Christ's sake, and so we are. Maybe not the violent persecution of places the Sudan, where a person who converted to Christianity from Islam would be murdered by their neighbours, but we are persecuted. We are mocked, derided, belittled for our faith. I've experienced this. When I worked as a chef the head chef used to regularly make jokes about me going to church. I'd get in on Sunday afternoon and he'd ask how many times I shouted "Hallelujah!" during the service. A friend of mine posts on facebook mocking Christianity. People refer to Easter as "Zombie Jesus Day." It's disgusting, but it's the world we live in. A fallen world that loves the darkness. All you can do, as others have said, is endure the mockery, as Christ endured the mockery of the Romans at Calvary. He gives us the strength to endure any trial, because He has endured them before us.

Thanks. I appreciate your prayers for me.

Hello all, For some times now I've been feeling like I'm stuck in a rut with my faith. I get up on Sunday, fully intending to go the Mass, but when the time comes I just don't want to go. I make excuses to myself, still tired, don't feel well, etc. I don't spend much time in prayer, either. If I pass the church in the town centre I usually go in and pray, but it's rare that I'm down that end of town. I do still feel called to the ministry, and I still read books on theology and Bible study, but otherwise I'm hardly practicing my faith. I'm really not sure what to do. I want to get back on track, but then my laziness kicks in and I want to do something else, stay at home, etc. I think a pilgrimage would do me good but I've got no money to make a journey anywhere. Even the Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham is too far, never mind somewhere like Canterbury or Glastonbury. I've got a lot of stress and worries in my life right now. I know Jesus promised to help carry these kinds of things, but I don't know how to ask Him. Or how to ask to help carry the Cross for Him. Can anyone offer any insight or suggestion?

You don't have to be Roman Catholic to benefit from the Rosary, or from the theological benefits of an understanding of Saint Mary. I find the outright rejection of one of the oldest and widely-held Christian traditions in the world very troubling, and more than a little reminiscent of teenage rebellion. Man-made authority structures, indeed.

Why do you disagree? Do you think the demonic forces of hell are something to take lightly? Even someone who is part way to becoming a saint can be possessed. What makes you think any Tom, Dick or Harry can perform an exorcism safely effectively? You think it's just a matter of believing in Jesus? You need the help of properly trained and experienced exorcists. Messing about with amateur exorcisms is even more dangerous than dabbling in the occult.

Why do you post irrelevent Bible passages as though doing so was somehow taking part in the discussion? It's very frustrating. Nothing you posted there even mentions exorcism, demons or anything related to the discussion.

That's a very complicated way of communicating, that doesn't actually add to the discussion. We can all quote Scripture until our keyboards are worn out, but it doesn't get us anywhere. The dangers of messing around with exorcisms without proper training or authority are manifold and frightening, not the least of which is leaving yourself open to demonic influence. Where you suspect demonic involvement, and aren't just imagining that every single one of life's problems is because of demons, seek help from a properly trained exorcist, or pay the consequences.

Just once, I'd like to see a post by you that isn't just a list of Bible quotes. I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say, is it something about Roman Catholics not being real believers with that quote about the Jews trying to use Jesus' name? Otherwise, it's just plain gibberish.

How has he treated his own family?

There are tests that are use by exorcists to discern true demonic involvement from mental illness, and it should be stressed that a properly trained and authorised exorcist will only be involved after all medical avenues have been explored and found useless.

Coming from a very Catholic, Church of England background I find this entire discussion very troubling. While I disagree with the Roman Church on some very important points of doctrine, they're right when they say that this kind of amateur exorcism is very dangerous. The mention of the lady at church, who was apparently oppressed by "many demons" is particularly worrying, and typical of this kind of zealous belief. Everything I've read and studied on exorcism and possession suggests that the notion of "many demons" possessing a person is misguided, and the random screaming out in church and the prayer over the victim typical of the whole mania. If this women is genuinely under demonic attack she needs the help of a properly trained and authorised exorcist, not mass hysteria. The same goes for this man Michael. While the prayers and support of those who love him are essential to his deliverance, he needs a properly trained and authorised exorcist, to first discern the truth of his condition, and then to begin the process of his deliverance. This is a journey his entire community of faith must travel with him, but always lead by the duly-appointed exorcist who has recieved authority from the bishop, not only in ordination to the priesthood, but in appointment to the office of exorcist and in specific permission to perform the solemn rite of exorcism in this case. While I accept that not every church in the world is of the Catholic tradition, simple common sense tells us that the nature of demons is what it is, and does not change just because your church doesn't think it needs bishops or ordination. I would encourage Michael and everyone involved in this situation to find your local Anglican or Roman Catholic parish priest and ask for help in this matter. Even if you're of another demonination no decent minister will refuse to see you or help you. As well as seeking this help, I would suggest that Michael be encouraged to practice his faith at every opportunity, to take Communion especially and to study the Bible. If he feels it appropriate, saying the Rosary would also be helpful, and for those of you praying for him, saying the Rosary for him would be very effective. Many reports from Catholic exorcisms mention the specific intercession of the Blessed Virgin. I would also reccomend the Prayer to St. Michael, both as a powerful prayer against evil and doubly because this man is named after the great Archangel. St. Michael's intercession is also regularly mentioned by Catholic exorcists and is even called for in the Roman Ritual. Above all, though, seek the help of your parish priest and referral to the properly-appointed exorcist. I apologise if any find my tone superior or condemnatory. This issue is too important to mince words.

Another well-reasoned response from FresnoJoe. I sometimes wonder if you're a bot programmed to quote the Bible...

Called to believe in ALL the Bible, eh? So you believe that a wife must submit to her husband at all times, even sexually? Indeed, according to Christianity it's impossible for a husband to rape his wife. The Bible also advocates selling a disobedient daughter into slavery, capital punishment for a variety of crimes and teaches that eating shellfish is an abomination before the Lord. I don't know of any Christian that believes in any of that, but it's all there in Exodus, along with the line about not lying with a man as with a woman. I genuinely don't understand why half of that stuff is even in moden Bibles, since they've removed all manner of books in the past, some of which have a far more useful message than dietary tips. Ladypeartree, you personally might not condemn gay people, but a lot of people here were doing so, and apparently denying them the option to ever have a partner, a sexual relationship or any kind of romantic connection. These are pretty basic human desires, yet because a person is born gay, without the ability to choose another way, they just can't ever have that? What are they meant to do, confine themselves to a monastery? Wear hair shirts to mortify the sinful flesh? What is this, the middle ages?

You know at least one British Christian in the Church of England... Do any of you people rushing to judge and condemn these two gay men actually know any gay people? Have any of you got the slightest idea what it's like for them? While you're thinking about that, think about this as well: did any of you (presumably) heterosexual people choose to be that way? Did you, at any time of your life, make a conscious decision to be sexually attracted to adult members of the opposite sex? I know I didn't. I know it was considered normal and essentially expected of me, but I never actually decided to be heterosexual. I just am. I was born this way. Now, I do know some gay people - and I know for a fact that they never chose to be gay. They just are. They were born that way. Since we're all Christians here, we surely accept that God makes each person as He sees fit, and that only He ordains when a life will be created. Without His spark no attempt at conception can be successful. So I ask you, in light of that certain knowledge - why are people gay? Is a gay person any less the creation of God, the expression of His Will? None of us choose our parents or families, or places or times of birth, God chooses those things for us and we can only bow to His command. So surely God has created that gay person, as He has created everyone else? For a gay person to try to be straight is like a man trying to be a woman - they cannot do it. They can't deny what they are. Apart from fundamentalists and right-wing extremists, every Christian church in the world now accepts gay people, and considers the Old Testament proscription against homosexuality to be representative of ancient prejudice rather than the Word of God. It might not be them that's wrong, you realise? Not every conflicting doctrine or tradition can be correct. Even if none of that mattered, I believe there's something in the Bible about not judging others, lest ye thyself be judged. It's been a while since I read one of the Gospel stories in its entirety, but I don't recall Jesus going around condemning people. Even crooked tax collectors and prostitutes were accepted by Him. How is it Christ-like to condemn these two for wanting children? Maybe they shouldn't have them Christened, but there are arguments against anyone doing that, gay or otherwise. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge, and quicker to accept others.