END times questions

[kross]

OK, for the record, I am a post-trib guy. That is never going to be in question.

I think the passages about the times of Noah refer to the marrying and giving in marriage and carrying on as normal. I do not think JESUS is saying that destruction will come upon them in this passage, I do think HE is saying that HIS appearing will come upon em in the same way as the flood.

It also seems clear in Rev 20 that this is in Heaven. The great white throne judgement is also in Heaven. JESUS said HE was going to prepare a place in HIS FATHERS house. HE also said HE would return for them that where HE is they would be also. The implication in context with all the scripture around it is that HE prepared a place in Heaven for them and that HE will return to take them to that place, not join them here.

I am confident that JESUS and the saints will come to the new Earth with the New Jeruselem, which is called "The Bride". This may indicate more than just a structure.

So, there is a difference of interpretation and understanding.

I can not take your understanding all the way to a great army for Satan to use at the end of the 1,000 years. If JESUS and the saints are on the Earth, how is Satan going to raise an army greater than the "Sands on the seashore"? Of all the other issues, why would JESUS save them and then let them be Satan's army. If these are the glorified saints, how does this happen?

Gog and Magog are nations that are not Jewish, how can Satan call an army from these nations if the only ones on Earth are glorified saints and Israel?

As i have said, I must study more.

The thing is it says in Luke 17 verse 27 speaking of Noah's day the flood came and destroyed them all and in verse 29 speaking of Lot's fire and brimstone rained down and destroyed them all, then in verse 30 it says Even thus will it be when the Son of man is revealed. There is no question that ALL of the wicked will be destroyed at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Satan does not deceive the glorified saints, he tempts the mortals that are born during the Millennium here on earth.

Jesus does say He is going to heaven to prepare a place and that place is New Jerusalem, but He never says that when He returns He was taken us to heaven. He said, ''I will return and gather you to myself that where I AM you may be also''. So If Jesus is returning to earth to destroy the wicked and set up His Millenniual Kingdom then that is where we will be also. If Jesus is going back to heaven then that is where we will be. The thing is I cannot find any scriptural evidence that Jesus returns to heaven after returning to earth to destroy the wicked after He sets up His Millenniual Kingdom. If you have scriptural evidence for that view it would interest me to see it.

Where do these mortals come from?

[Floatingaxe]

I like this topic but my head is spinning from all of the recent conversation.

I would like to know the scriptures that teach that the dead in CHRIST are the ones that make of the army from Heaven at the end of the tribulation.

I would also like to see some of the scriptures that teach that all of the wicked will be destroyed at the end of the tribulation.

Thanks

K. Ross

Now to answer your 2nd question.

We see in Matthew 24:37-39 that Jesus says the 2nd coming will be just like the flood the wicked would not know it was coming until it came and destroys them all.

Matthew 24:37-39

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving into marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 17:26-30 tells the same story but adds Lot and also give us a posttrib view of the rapture by saying the exact same day we will be removed in the exact same day Jesus returns to utterly destroy the wicked.

Luke 17:26-30

26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

The very day Noah entered the ark the flood came and destroyed them all, once again it was not a seven year prolonged period of destruction but it was immediate, the very day the righteous were removed.It is very clear the SAME DAY Noah went on the ark the flood came and destroyed them all. The SAME DAY Lot was taken, out of Sodom fire and brimstone rain from heaven and destroyed them all. The text says this is exactly how it will be when Jesus returns. The very SAME DAY Jesus returns at His post trib second coming is the very SAME DAY we will be taken out or '' raptured '' and it is the very SAME DAY He will destroy the wicked. This will be confirmed in my next text 2nd Thessalonins 1:6-10 as well.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

The same day Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels is the same day we are given rest and the same day He destroys the wicked with fire. this is described by John the baptist in Matthew 3.

Matthew 3:11-12

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The wheat Jesus gathers ( the rapture) but the chaff He burns with fire (the destruction of the wicked by fire explained in 2nd thess 1:6-10)

Lastly we see that when the wicked say peace and safty then sudden destruction will come upon them ( not a 7year period of destruction be sudden and total destruction in 1st thess 5:2-3.

1st Thessalonians 5:2-3

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

We see in 2nd thess 2:8 that the anti christ himself will be destroyed by the brightness of the 2nd coming of Christ.

2nd Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

So we can see that not only are the wicked destroyed by fire at the posttrib 2nd coming of Christ but that this is when we are raptured and not a moment b4.

You must of missed this post it was right under the on about the dead returning from heaven with Jesus.

I did miss this. I see where it can be a good point.

The vrs from 2thess says coming with HIS angels, that would be after the Millennium. You already taught me that at the end of the Tribulation HE comes with the saints.

Jesus does not come after the Millennium He is on earth for the Millennium. Where would He be coming from? He is already here on earth. It is true the Army returning with Him in Revelation 19:14 are the saints. However there will be angels with His as well at His 2nd coming As we see in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 the angels are the one that actually gathers the elect. and in 1st thess 4:16 it says Jesus returns with a shoul, THE VOICE OF AN ARCH ANGEL and the trump of God, and in the verse you are speaking of it clearly shows that when Jesus is revealed it will have mighty angels with Him.

1st Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:

Matthew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27

24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

2nd Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

So although you are correct the Arny is many made up of the souls of the dead saints returning from heaven with Christ to receive their heavenly bodies. It will also include the living saints that are caught up to meet them in the air, as well as the ''mighty angels'' that Jesus will be revealed with.

Remember Jesus does not return to earth after the Millennium. He returns to earth b4 the Millennium and will be on earth for the Millennium. He is already on earth at the end of the Millennium, there will be no need to return to earth from earth.

I understand that you have said that JESUS and the saints will be on the earth. I do not agree with that. I am going to study some more on that aspect. I think JESUS comes to get us to "take us to where HE is" not join us where we are. Also, it still sets up a problem with the idea that JESUS is here on Earth with the saints and yet Satan is able to build an army from saints dwelling with JESUS.

Heaven is going to be here anyway. After the Millennial reigng here, and final Judgment, the City of God, the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven and God dwells with His people---right here!

[kross]

OK, for the record, I am a post-trib guy. That is never going to be in question.

I think the passages about the times of Noah refer to the marrying and giving in marriage and carrying on as normal. I do not think JESUS is saying that destruction will come upon them in this passage, I do think HE is saying that HIS appearing will come upon em in the same way as the flood.

It also seems clear in Rev 20 that this is in Heaven. The great white throne judgement is also in Heaven. JESUS said HE was going to prepare a place in HIS FATHERS house. HE also said HE would return for them that where HE is they would be also. The implication in context with all the scripture around it is that HE prepared a place in Heaven for them and that HE will return to take them to that place, not join them here.

I am confident that JESUS and the saints will come to the new Earth with the New Jeruselem, which is called "The Bride". This may indicate more than just a structure.

So, there is a difference of interpretation and understanding.

I can not take your understanding all the way to a great army for Satan to use at the end of the 1,000 years. If JESUS and the saints are on the Earth, how is Satan going to raise an army greater than the "Sands on the seashore"? Of all the other issues, why would JESUS save them and then let them be Satan's army. If these are the glorified saints, how does this happen?

Gog and Magog are nations that are not Jewish, how can Satan call an army from these nations if the only ones on Earth are glorified saints and Israel?

As i have said, I must study more.

The thing is it says in Luke 17 verse 27 speaking of Noah's day the flood came and destroyed them all and in verse 29 speaking of Lot's fire and brimstone rained down and destroyed them all, then in verse 30 it says Even thus will it be when the Son of man is revealed. There is no question that ALL of the wicked will be destroyed at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Satan does not deceive the glorified saints, he tempts the mortals that are born during the Millennium here on earth.

Jesus does say He is going to heaven to prepare a place and that place is New Jerusalem, but He never says that when He returns He was taken us to heaven. He said, ''I will return and gather you to myself that where I AM you may be also''. So If Jesus is returning to earth to destroy the wicked and set up His Millenniual Kingdom then that is where we will be also. If Jesus is going back to heaven then that is where we will be. The thing is I cannot find any scriptural evidence that Jesus returns to heaven after returning to earth to destroy the wicked after He sets up His Millenniual Kingdom. If you have scriptural evidence for that view it would interest me to see it.

Where do these mortals come from?

They are the descendants of the Jewish people that go into the Millennium in their mortal bodies.

So, the Jewish people have their Messiah living with them on Earth, are having a wonderful 1,000 years of peace, and then they turn on HIM in rediculously large numbers.

This does seem to deny the everlasting covenant GOD has with them

By the way, the nations of GOG and Magog are not of Jewish decent., So, the army can not be JEwish people.

[Floatingaxe]

OK, for the record, I am a post-trib guy. That is never going to be in question.

I think the passages about the times of Noah refer to the marrying and giving in marriage and carrying on as normal. I do not think JESUS is saying that destruction will come upon them in this passage, I do think HE is saying that HIS appearing will come upon em in the same way as the flood.

It also seems clear in Rev 20 that this is in Heaven. The great white throne judgement is also in Heaven. JESUS said HE was going to prepare a place in HIS FATHERS house. HE also said HE would return for them that where HE is they would be also. The implication in context with all the scripture around it is that HE prepared a place in Heaven for them and that HE will return to take them to that place, not join them here.

I am confident that JESUS and the saints will come to the new Earth with the New Jeruselem, which is called "The Bride". This may indicate more than just a structure.

So, there is a difference of interpretation and understanding.

I can not take your understanding all the way to a great army for Satan to use at the end of the 1,000 years. If JESUS and the saints are on the Earth, how is Satan going to raise an army greater than the "Sands on the seashore"? Of all the other issues, why would JESUS save them and then let them be Satan's army. If these are the glorified saints, how does this happen?

Gog and Magog are nations that are not Jewish, how can Satan call an army from these nations if the only ones on Earth are glorified saints and Israel?

As i have said, I must study more.

The thing is it says in Luke 17 verse 27 speaking of Noah's day the flood came and destroyed them all and in verse 29 speaking of Lot's fire and brimstone rained down and destroyed them all, then in verse 30 it says Even thus will it be when the Son of man is revealed. There is no question that ALL of the wicked will be destroyed at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Satan does not deceive the glorified saints, he tempts the mortals that are born during the Millennium here on earth.

Jesus does say He is going to heaven to prepare a place and that place is New Jerusalem, but He never says that when He returns He was taken us to heaven. He said, ''I will return and gather you to myself that where I AM you may be also''. So If Jesus is returning to earth to destroy the wicked and set up His Millenniual Kingdom then that is where we will be also. If Jesus is going back to heaven then that is where we will be. The thing is I cannot find any scriptural evidence that Jesus returns to heaven after returning to earth to destroy the wicked after He sets up His Millenniual Kingdom. If you have scriptural evidence for that view it would interest me to see it.

Where do these mortals come from?

They are the descendants of the Jewish people that go into the Millennium in their mortal bodies.

So, the Jewish people have their Messiah living with them on Earth, are having a wonderful 1,000 years of peace, and then they turn on HIM in rediculously large numbers.

This does seem to deny the everlasting covenant GOD has with them

By the way, the nations of GOG and Magog are not of Jewish decent., So, the army can not be JEwish people.

The nations on earth at that time will be a mix of all people who survived Tribulation and do not have glorified bodies.

[kross]

OK, for the record, I am a post-trib guy. That is never going to be in question.

I think the passages about the times of Noah refer to the marrying and giving in marriage and carrying on as normal. I do not think JESUS is saying that destruction will come upon them in this passage, I do think HE is saying that HIS appearing will come upon em in the same way as the flood.

It also seems clear in Rev 20 that this is in Heaven. The great white throne judgement is also in Heaven. JESUS said HE was going to prepare a place in HIS FATHERS house. HE also said HE would return for them that where HE is they would be also. The implication in context with all the scripture around it is that HE prepared a place in Heaven for them and that HE will return to take them to that place, not join them here.

I am confident that JESUS and the saints will come to the new Earth with the New Jeruselem, which is called "The Bride". This may indicate more than just a structure.

So, there is a difference of interpretation and understanding.

I can not take your understanding all the way to a great army for Satan to use at the end of the 1,000 years. If JESUS and the saints are on the Earth, how is Satan going to raise an army greater than the "Sands on the seashore"? Of all the other issues, why would JESUS save them and then let them be Satan's army. If these are the glorified saints, how does this happen?

Gog and Magog are nations that are not Jewish, how can Satan call an army from these nations if the only ones on Earth are glorified saints and Israel?

As i have said, I must study more.

The thing is it says in Luke 17 verse 27 speaking of Noah's day the flood came and destroyed them all and in verse 29 speaking of Lot's fire and brimstone rained down and destroyed them all, then in verse 30 it says Even thus will it be when the Son of man is revealed. There is no question that ALL of the wicked will be destroyed at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Satan does not deceive the glorified saints, he tempts the mortals that are born during the Millennium here on earth.

Jesus does say He is going to heaven to prepare a place and that place is New Jerusalem, but He never says that when He returns He was taken us to heaven. He said, ''I will return and gather you to myself that where I AM you may be also''. So If Jesus is returning to earth to destroy the wicked and set up His Millenniual Kingdom then that is where we will be also. If Jesus is going back to heaven then that is where we will be. The thing is I cannot find any scriptural evidence that Jesus returns to heaven after returning to earth to destroy the wicked after He sets up His Millenniual Kingdom. If you have scriptural evidence for that view it would interest me to see it.

Where do these mortals come from?

They are the descendants of the Jewish people that go into the Millennium in their mortal bodies.

So, the Jewish people have their Messiah living with them on Earth, are having a wonderful 1,000 years of peace, and then they turn on HIM in rediculously large numbers.

This does seem to deny the everlasting covenant GOD has with them

By the way, the nations of GOG and Magog are not of Jewish decent., So, the army can not be JEwish people.

Since i do not believe JESUS will be here on Earth during the millennial kingdom, it is not a problem for me to believe HE will have HIS saints with HIM in Heaven. I understand that you see HIM coming to earth and staying. I see HIM coming to Earth to gather HIS people to take them to where HE has prepared a place in HIS FATHER"S house. I can't make this scripture fit New Jerusalem because that is not for anohther 1,000 years and it will not be in the faters house.

[kross]

I like this topic but my head is spinning from all of the recent conversation.

I would like to know the scriptures that teach that the dead in CHRIST are the ones that make of the army from Heaven at the end of the tribulation.

I would also like to see some of the scriptures that teach that all of the wicked will be destroyed at the end of the tribulation.

Thanks

K. Ross

Now to answer your 2nd question.

We see in Matthew 24:37-39 that Jesus says the 2nd coming will be just like the flood the wicked would not know it was coming until it came and destroys them all.

Matthew 24:37-39

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving into marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 17:26-30 tells the same story but adds Lot and also give us a posttrib view of the rapture by saying the exact same day we will be removed in the exact same day Jesus returns to utterly destroy the wicked.

Luke 17:26-30

26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

The very day Noah entered the ark the flood came and destroyed them all, once again it was not a seven year prolonged period of destruction but it was immediate, the very day the righteous were removed.It is very clear the SAME DAY Noah went on the ark the flood came and destroyed them all. The SAME DAY Lot was taken, out of Sodom fire and brimstone rain from heaven and destroyed them all. The text says this is exactly how it will be when Jesus returns. The very SAME DAY Jesus returns at His post trib second coming is the very SAME DAY we will be taken out or '' raptured '' and it is the very SAME DAY He will destroy the wicked. This will be confirmed in my next text 2nd Thessalonins 1:6-10 as well.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

The same day Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels is the same day we are given rest and the same day He destroys the wicked with fire. this is described by John the baptist in Matthew 3.

Matthew 3:11-12

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The wheat Jesus gathers ( the rapture) but the chaff He burns with fire (the destruction of the wicked by fire explained in 2nd thess 1:6-10)

Lastly we see that when the wicked say peace and safty then sudden destruction will come upon them ( not a 7year period of destruction be sudden and total destruction in 1st thess 5:2-3.

1st Thessalonians 5:2-3

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

We see in 2nd thess 2:8 that the anti christ himself will be destroyed by the brightness of the 2nd coming of Christ.

2nd Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

So we can see that not only are the wicked destroyed by fire at the posttrib 2nd coming of Christ but that this is when we are raptured and not a moment b4.

You must of missed this post it was right under the on about the dead returning from heaven with Jesus.

I did miss this. I see where it can be a good point.

The vrs from 2thess says coming with HIS angels, that would be after the Millennium. You already taught me that at the end of the Tribulation HE comes with the saints.

Jesus does not come after the Millennium He is on earth for the Millennium. Where would He be coming from? He is already here on earth. It is true the Army returning with Him in Revelation 19:14 are the saints. However there will be angels with His as well at His 2nd coming As we see in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 the angels are the one that actually gathers the elect. and in 1st thess 4:16 it says Jesus returns with a shoul, THE VOICE OF AN ARCH ANGEL and the trump of God, and in the verse you are speaking of it clearly shows that when Jesus is revealed it will have mighty angels with Him.

1st Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:

Matthew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27

24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

2nd Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

So although you are correct the Arny is many made up of the souls of the dead saints returning from heaven with Christ to receive their heavenly bodies. It will also include the living saints that are caught up to meet them in the air, as well as the ''mighty angels'' that Jesus will be revealed with.

Remember Jesus does not return to earth after the Millennium. He returns to earth b4 the Millennium and will be on earth for the Millennium. He is already on earth at the end of the Millennium, there will be no need to return to earth from earth.

I understand that you have said that JESUS and the saints will be on the earth. I do not agree with that. I am going to study some more on that aspect. I think JESUS comes to get us to "take us to where HE is" not join us where we are. Also, it still sets up a problem with the idea that JESUS is here on Earth with the saints and yet Satan is able to build an army from saints dwelling with JESUS.

Heaven is going to be here anyway. Afdter the Millennial reigng here, and final Judgment, the City of God, the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven and God dwells with His people---right here!

We are all fine on the post millennial issues, my friend here feels that JESUS will destroy all the wicked at the end of the tribulation, so the only people left will be glorified saints and Israel. I do not think that either group would be likely to turn against JESUS after 1,000 years with HIM.

[Floatingaxe]

At the end of the Millennium, the Word tells us there will be a great war.

Revelation 20:7-9

When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations

[Floatingaxe]

Since i do not believe JESUS will be here on Earth during the millennial kingdom, it is not a problem for me to believe HE will have HIS saints with HIM in Heaven. I understand that you see HIM coming to earth and staying. I see HIM coming to Earth to gather HIS people to take them to where HE has prepared a place in HIS FATHER"S house. I can't make this scripture fit New Jerusalem because that is not for anohther 1,000 years and it will not be in the faters house.

Revelation 20:7-9

When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations

[Celt]

Revelation 20:7-9

When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations

[kross]

OK, for the record, I am a post-trib guy. That is never going to be in question.

I think the passages about the times of Noah refer to the marrying and giving in marriage and carrying on as normal. I do not think JESUS is saying that destruction will come upon them in this passage, I do think HE is saying that HIS appearing will come upon em in the same way as the flood.

It also seems clear in Rev 20 that this is in Heaven. The great white throne judgement is also in Heaven. JESUS said HE was going to prepare a place in HIS FATHERS house. HE also said HE would return for them that where HE is they would be also. The implication in context with all the scripture around it is that HE prepared a place in Heaven for them and that HE will return to take them to that place, not join them here.

I am confident that JESUS and the saints will come to the new Earth with the New Jeruselem, which is called "The Bride". This may indicate more than just a structure.

So, there is a difference of interpretation and understanding.

I can not take your understanding all the way to a great army for Satan to use at the end of the 1,000 years. If JESUS and the saints are on the Earth, how is Satan going to raise an army greater than the "Sands on the seashore"? Of all the other issues, why would JESUS save them and then let them be Satan's army. If these are the glorified saints, how does this happen?

Gog and Magog are nations that are not Jewish, how can Satan call an army from these nations if the only ones on Earth are glorified saints and Israel?

As i have said, I must study more.

The thing is it says in Luke 17 verse 27 speaking of Noah's day the flood came and destroyed them all and in verse 29 speaking of Lot's fire and brimstone rained down and destroyed them all, then in verse 30 it says Even thus will it be when the Son of man is revealed. There is no question that ALL of the wicked will be destroyed at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Satan does not deceive the glorified saints, he tempts the mortals that are born during the Millennium here on earth.

Jesus does say He is going to heaven to prepare a place and that place is New Jerusalem, but He never says that when He returns He was taken us to heaven. He said, ''I will return and gather you to myself that where I AM you may be also''. So If Jesus is returning to earth to destroy the wicked and set up His Millenniual Kingdom then that is where we will be also. If Jesus is going back to heaven then that is where we will be. The thing is I cannot find any scriptural evidence that Jesus returns to heaven after returning to earth to destroy the wicked after He sets up His Millenniual Kingdom. If you have scriptural evidence for that view it would interest me to see it.

Where do these mortals come from?

They are the descendants of the Jewish people that go into the Millennium in their mortal bodies.

So, the Jewish people have their Messiah living with them on Earth, are having a wonderful 1,000 years of peace, and then they turn on HIM in rediculously large numbers.

This does seem to deny the everlasting covenant GOD has with them

By the way, the nations of GOG and Magog are not of Jewish decent., So, the army can not be Jwish people.

The Jews have continually turn against God through out their entire history, not all will turn on God and the remnant that remains faithful will enter in to eternity with the glorified saints to spend it with Christ in New Jerusalem.

I feel like I am beating my head against a wall.

The Jewish people have turned away from GOD when HE was not imediately evident. You are saying that their Messiah, JESUS, will be there with them, with a few million saints in glorified bodies, all sitting on thrones. This is not the same scenario as in the old testament.