Faith vs. Science 2

[Isaiah-smiles]

I am unaware of any evidence that the earth was depopulated to only a few (Noah and his family) people in the last 6000 years. If you have some please give me a citation to it.

This one works for me.....

Genesis 7:

21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Any non-Biblical?

I believe Einstein said it best! "Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein.1

1 http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/24949.html

[lilnic]

Can I ask what people in here think about science v religion?

Is there even a V??

[Isaiah-smiles]

Isaiah: When was Noah's flood? How long ago? Trying to understand when you start your population.

I've anwsered this before-4400 years ago.

[Isaiah-smiles]

Isaiah: When was Noah's flood? How long ago? Trying to understand when you start your population.

I've anwsered this before-4400 years ago.

So about 2400 BC. Major pyramid building in Egypt took place 2600 BC to 2400 BC. How come they were not destroyed by the flood? If the dates are off by a bit, and they really were post flood, where did all the Egyptians come from if there were only 8 people immediately post flood?

Do you have any non-Biblical evidence for Noah's world wide flood?

Concerning pyramids; The Bible gives us only a few clues about where the rebels went after they left the Tower of Babel. One rebel leader was Ham's son Mizraim. Since his name later became a synonym for Egypt, early Jewish and Christian writers believed he led his family to Africa, founding Egypt along the waters of the Nile.

We must go to secular sources, however, to find more details about the founding of Egypt. According to the Greek historian Herodotus (ca. 484

Edited September 11, 2008 by Isaiah-smiles

[Isaiah-smiles]

Do you have any non-Biblical evidence for Noah's world wide flood?

Basic Oil Geology

Oil deposits are usually found in sedimentary rocks. Such rocks formed as sand, silt, and clay grains were eroded from land surfaces and carried by moving water to be deposited in sediment layers. As these sediment layers dried, chemicals from the water formed natural cements to bind the sediment grains into hard rocks.

Pools of oil are found in underground traps where the host sedimentary rock layers have been folded and/or faulted. The host sedimentary or reservoir rock is still porous enough for the oil to accumulate in spaces between the sediment grains. The oil usually hasn't formed in the reservoir rock but has been generated in source rock and subsequently migrated through the sedimentary rock layers until trapped.

Now let me ask you a few questions ? Where does oil come from ? In your scientific mind, where did the dinosaurs go ? And what evidence do you have for your answer ? What about coal ? Where does that come from ?

Here is the source of the above statement; http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/a...1/origin-of-oil

Now I realize that it has a Biblical view to it but, How about you giving us your scientific opinion and let the other members of this forum decide what sounds more plausible, a Biblical view or a non-Biblical view ?

Edited September 11, 2008 by Isaiah-smiles

[Isaiah-smiles]

This did not answer my question. So lets get basic. When were the Egyptian pyramids built?

Indulge me, I do not believe that the "correct interpretation of archeology and history, including Egypt's pyramids, begins with the Bible.

2650 BCE Great pyramids are built in Giza, Egypt, as mortuary temples for Pharaohs

2500 BCE Earliest syllabic script, Sumerian

2000 -1700 BCE

THE PATRIARCHS According to the Bible, Abraham is born in the city of Ur in Southern Mesopotamia, now Iraq. A competing tradition places his birth in Sanliufa, now Turkey.

According to tradition, Abraham migrates to Harran, in Northern Mesopotamia, where he is then directed by God to take his family to the land of Canaan. Over the years, they migrate between Canaanite cities including Shechem and Gerar. Abraham fathers 2 sons, Ishmael and Isaac.

Isaac fathers 2 sons Esau and Jacob.

Jacob, also called Israel, leads his family into Egypt.

Source:

The source was actually PBS which is not bias towards Christianity nor the Bible.

http://www.pbs.org/walkingthebible/timeline.html

[Isaiah-smiles]

Do you have any non-Biblical evidence for Noah's world wide flood?

Basic Oil Geology

Oil deposits are usually found in sedimentary rocks. Such rocks formed as sand, silt, and clay grains were eroded from land surfaces and carried by moving water to be deposited in sediment layers. As these sediment layers dried, chemicals from the water formed natural cements to bind the sediment grains into hard rocks.

Pools of oil are found in underground traps where the host sedimentary rock layers have been folded and/or faulted. The host sedimentary or reservoir rock is still porous enough for the oil to accumulate in spaces between the sediment grains. The oil usually hasn't formed in the reservoir rock but has been generated in source rock and subsequently migrated through the sedimentary rock layers until trapped.

Now let me ask you a few questions ? Where does oil come from ? In your scientific mind, where did the dinosaurs go ? And what evidence do you have for your answer ? What about coal ? Where does that come from ?

Here is the source of the above statement; http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/a...1/origin-of-oil

Now I realize that it has a Biblical view to it but, How about you giving us your scientific opinion and let the other members of this forum decide what sounds more plausible, a Biblical view or a non-Biblical view ?

I am just repeating myself, because you have not responded to the above questions.

[Jorge S]

Got a cite to his vindication? Thanks.

I can only say that I have NEVER seen anything from a purely scientific standpoint that supported his hydroplate theory, his idea of the creation of the mid-ocean ridges, how asteroids and comets got there etc.

Perhaps you're not really looking.

Walter Brown's basic claim is that the world shows universal signs of catastrophe caused primarily by lots of water in keeping with the biblical flood scenario. Any new evidence or explanation that subverts the credibility of the hegemonic uniformitarian wisdom constitutes a vindication of Mr Brown's work, even if the Hydroplate Theory in itself does not prove to be the ultimate explanation (something we neither claim nor expect.)

Here is just a sampler:

• Comets are a mixture of hot minerals, volatiles and organic compounds similar to those found in planets, including the earth. Science (vol. 314, 15 Dec. 2006), BBC news, Space.com, National Geographic, and other sites.
  
  
  • 'Plumes from deep mantle, subduction into deep mantle, and bottom-up convective drive do not exist.' An Alternative Earth by Hamilton. GSA Journal.
    http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?reque...AE%3E2.0.CO%3B2
    
    
    • Mudstone can be deposited by rapid flow. http://creationsafaris.com/crev200712.htm
      
      
      • Canyons could be shaped by mega-floods.
        http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/literat..._paradigm_shift
        
        
        • Diamonds and Gold can form in short periods, not millions of years. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v447/...ature05692.html ;
          http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/314/5797/288
          

        [*]Lyell lied (regarding the rate of erosion of the Niagara gorge)

        http://creationontheweb.com/index2.php?opt...op=1&page=0

        [*]Microbes can double the rate of deposition of sedimentary rocks (with obvious dating implications) http://www.physorg.com/news120228971.html

        [*]Palladium experiments questioned 'Late Veneer Hypothesis' on earth formation. http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?o...r=0&thold=0

        There is one fundamental problem you will always have with Walter Brown: he is a Christian who believes the Bible in general to be true and Genesis in particular to be an accurate historic account of the Creation event and the Global Flood. No amount of evidence will ever be good enough for you and this is in total agreement with biblical teaching - believing the Biblical God has never been a problem of lack of evidence but rather of 'hardening of the heart.'

[Isaiah-smiles]

There is one fundamental problem you will always have with Walter Brown: he is a Christian who believes the Bible in general to be true and Genesis in particular to be an accurate historic account of the Creation event and the Global Flood. No amount of evidence will ever be good enough for you and this is in total agreement with biblical teaching - believing the Biblical God has never been a problem of lack of evidence but rather of 'hardening of the heart.'

Amen !! I think you hit the spot Jorge !

[Jorge S]

My understanding is that oil comes from plants that were buried millions of years ago.

... Coal--again from plant material that is millions of years old.

It's proven they were buried. For millions of years? Not proven. See further below.

The evidence I have, is that there are no more dinosaurs and that science suggests that birds evolved from therapod dinosaurs (you can double check the therapod reference, I think that is the correct term).

... --another thing you can check--the dates.

Did you mean theropod!? A misspelling is not a big deal... unless seen in the writtings of a self-appointed prophet of scientism who is always demanding citations and references and exhorting his fellow debaters to 'learn some science.' Why the burden of 'checking' should be on others?

Dinosaur fossils are found in rock that is understood to be millions of years old (most I think more than 100 million years). Dinosaur fossils are never found with modern mammal fossils for example, why not?

In the book that deserved so little of your approval Dr Brown wrote:

Out-of-Place Fossils

Frequently, fossils are not vertically sequenced in the assumed evolutionary order. For example, in Uzbekistan, 86 consecutive hoofprints of horses were found in rocks dating back to the dinosaurs. Hoofprints of some other animal are alongside 1,000 dinosaur footprints in Virginia. A leading authority on the Grand Canyon published photographs of horselike hoofprints visible in rocks that, according to the theory of evolution, predate hoofed animals by more than a 100 million years. Dinosaur and humanlike footprints were found together in Turkmenistan and Arizona. Sometimes, land animals, flying animals, and marine animals are fossilized side-by-side in the same rock. Dinosaur, whale, elephant, horse, and other fossils, plus crude human tools, have reportedly been found in phosphate beds in South Carolina. Coal beds contain round, black lumps called coal balls, some of which contain flowering plants that allegedly evolved 100 million years after the coal bed was formed. In the Grand Canyon, in Venezuela, in Kashmir, and in Guyana, spores of ferns and pollen from flowering plants are found in Cambrian rocks, rocks supposedly deposited before flowering plants evolved. Pollen has also been found in Precambrian rocks deposited before life allegedly evolved.

Petrified trees in Arizona's petrified forest contain fossilized nests of bees and cocoons of wasps. The petrified forests are reputedly 220 million years old, while bees (and flowering plants which bees require) supposedly evolved almost a 100 million years later. Pollinating insects and fossil flies, with long, well-developed tubes for sucking nectar from flowers, are dated 25 million years before flowers are assumed to have evolved. Most evolutionists and textbooks systematically ignore discoveries which conflict with the evolutionary time scale.

Dr Brown gave not less than 13 references for those two paragraphs. Have you checked them?

...I believe that anyone who needs a literal Biblical view of the world is either ignorant of the facts or delusional.

Where are the facts upon which you base such a derogatory claim?