EricH Posted October 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 23, 2008 You really need to get rid of that Watchtower version . . . Good call. Can every one just insult me now and get it over with It wasn't an insult Mike. It was an attempt to clarify your source of understanding. That simple... Wayne, Sorry if I took it the wrong way, but a question as to my beliefs may have not been misinturpted Not sure what you meant to say here but... Just to be clear. In order to deny that Jesus is fully God (and fully man), you have to ignore the entire first chapter of the Gospel of John (as well as the rest of the the Gospel of John). You have to ignore ALL that was written in the context of the time, language and culture. The Gospel of John opens up with... 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. and goes on to say... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. See...this is why I brought up the Watchtower version. The Jehovah Witnesses could not explain this so they simply rewrote it and published their very own translation. How do you get past that simple and straightforward statement of TRUTH? You have to ignore ALL that was written in the context of the time, language and culture. There is a post above that goes into more detail, but I will sum it up if I can. Considering the context, language and culture I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted October 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 i agree here is another John 8: 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. love your sister in Christ, Rebekah David John 8: 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am. Many site this, claiming Christ is saying He is, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Jesus Deity Is Seen In The Old Testament Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14) This verse speaks of Jesus being born of a virgin. The word for virgin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Jesus Deity Is Seen In His Role As Savior In the Old Testament Scriptures, God has this to say about being our Savior: I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior. (Isaiah 43:11) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me. (Isaiah 45:21) Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no savior beside me. (Hosea 13:4) Here we have three Scriptures that tell us that God and God alone is our Savior. God is emphatic that there is no Savior for man apart from Him. Now it is interesting that the Bible declares that God is also our salvation. Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah. (Psalms 3:8) A Psalm of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? (Psalms 27:1) To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalms 62:1-2) My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defense; I shall not be moved. In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God. (Psalms 62:5-7) Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. (Isaiah 12:2) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (Isaiah 45:22-23) These are just a sampling of the OT Scriptures that declare God as both Savior and Salvation. Now lets examine what the Bible has to say about Jesus as our Savior and our Salvation. A. Jesus is our Savior, and the ONLY Savior according to the following Scriptures: And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. (Luke 2:10-11) Here we see the angel referring to Jesus as Savior and also Messiah the Lord or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poindexter Posted October 23, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/26/1948 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) mike, where do you think Christ is now? Trav, Seated at the Right Hand of God. Where do you feel He is? So - do you think he's there, just as a man in a glorified body? I believe He ascended to His throne, as Lord of Lord, King of Kings. What would it mean to man if God raised God from the dead? What hope in the resurrection is there for man by God raising God? The point is the condescension of God to become a man. Jesus was a man when He was on earth. But He was a God man as He was born of the Spirit, not by the will of man. He fulfilled all aspects of our temptation to live obediently....Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. I see now (maybe you just added it) the "group nonbeliever" that is on your post identity. I would therefore have to conclude you are outside the flock of whom we are initiates. I am a newcomer to this board but I am an old participant in the struggle to live by the will of God. The thing that annoys me most about those who choose to "oppose themselves" (2 Tim 2:25) is that they oppose others who have been drawn to the trough of the river of life. If one is to be a believer one is called to have faith in things that are not understood by the natural man. For the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God. (1 Cor 2:14) If one is not in the Spirit one is in the flesh. And if one is in the flesh one is not a child of God. Rom 8:9b Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. To insist Christ is not God and that He never came in the flesh is total contrariness to the principals of the Christian faith. All of this word wresting is not unto sound doctrine, save it be from a pure heart and of unadulterated word. The word of God is powerful and it divides asunder spirit and flesh. Best I can say is I need to remember 2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, 2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; Once that word has been released and the follower of the Lord has done his faithful bidding, it is no longer up to that follower but it is in the hand of God, for He alone gives repentance unto the acknowledging of the truth. Edited October 23, 2008 by Poindexter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted October 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 mike, where do you think Christ is now? Trav, Seated at the Right Hand of God. Where do you feel He is? So - do you think he's there, just as a man in a glorified body? I believe He ascended to His throne, as Lord of Lord, King of Kings. What would it mean to man if God raise God from the dead? What hope in the resurrection is there for man by God raising God? Sorry mike - I didn't see this. It got lost in the pages. mike - God in His mercy and lovingkindness gave of Himself so that we could spend eternity with Him. But remember, He was fully man/fully God here. Yet He left His heavenly home, where He had such glory! so that He could purchase us with His blood. That makes it infinitely more special to me, that He did it Himself - gave Himself. mike - it is the Lord that I love, becasue He first loved me. He is my Savior, and not another. 2Sa 22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: [he is] my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence. I have faultered on beliefs before, not having a firm foundation. However, I have never been able to separate Jesus from God. He reveals iHimself to us in so many ways in His word. 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. I sincerely hope that you allow the others to discuss this with you. And I sincerely hope that you listen with your heart. I will be in prayer over this, mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2008 Hi Mike...if you consider what it is that actually sets G-d apart and defines Him as G-d, I think the same gradual process of revelation that dawned on the disciples will dawn on you. Here's praying. Botz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted October 24, 2008 mike, where do you think Christ is now? Trav, Seated at the Right Hand of God. Where do you feel He is? So - do you think he's there, just as a man in a glorified body? I believe He ascended to His throne, as Lord of Lord, King of Kings. What would it mean to man if God raise God from the dead? What hope in the resurrection is there for man by God raising God? It would be (and was) a physical demonstration that God conquers death and the resurrection is real. Not all Jews believed in any resurrection. The Sadducees did not believe but the Pharisees did. Paul actually used that to spark debate between the two parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted October 24, 2008 But nowhere can I find we are to believe He was God in the flesh, or truly God truly man, these are ideas that surfaced after the Bible was written. What version of the Bible do you read? You should read John Chapter 5 a bit closer... 18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. 24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. 37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38 "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent. 39/40 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. Mike, you didn't respond to this. You chose to respond only to the "watchtower" comment but you didn't respond to this. Why? Did I not answer your question as to why it is important to believe Jesus is God. Furthermore, do you know what Jesus truly meant when He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. " John 14:6 I mean...not just the words but placing the statement in context to the culture of the Jew? He was speaking to them after all so what did He really say here? Do you know? Wayne, I am sorry, I was not ingoring your post. If it is any consulation to you I have not answered others post also. Mike, I wasn't trying to evoke an apology. I was simply showing you that you focused on the Watchtower comment rather than consider the answer to your question. I am not concerned about getting responses other than I, like you, desire TRUTH...and there is but one TRUTH. Looks like you have a bunch of us praying for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted October 24, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2008 i agree here is another John 8: 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. love your sister in Christ, Rebekah David John 8: 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am. Many site this, claiming Christ is saying He is, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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