mizzdy Posted February 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 173 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,911 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 10 Joined: 03/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2009 Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thanks, I knew it was there somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted February 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2009 So G-d took Adam, and placed him in Eden, where Satan already dwelt? Perhaps the tree not only contained the forbidden fruit, but was also the dwelling of the serpent...forgive the illustration, but a bit like the Caterpillar with the hookah on the Mushroom in Alice in Wonderland. Preachbill...Second..You cant have the fall of Lucifer before the Fall of man...Sin and Death came by Adam, not prior by Lucifer, that would put Death in the world prior to the fall. So you think before pride entered Satans heart and he rebelled against G-d...Adam had already sinned and been banished from the Garden of Eden....and yet there was Satan in the Garden....hardly!!!! Mizzdy....Isn't there a verse somewhere that say that satan was in the garden before that maybe in Eze? But I don't think that Eve saw it as unusual for him to be there as it seems she was comfortable in talking to him. Its a stretch I suppose to think that but when I read the story its almost like she is talking to someone she knows. I agree...there seems to be a chummy degree of familiarity...could be that Satan in his glorious embodiment as a serpent was a creature of eye-catchingly dazzling beauty...and huge cunning...gained their trust, and then when the time was right, pointed out the attributes of the fruit the tree produced, and caused them to question the word of G-d. When Adam named all the creatures...he must have named the serpent? Did Satan exist before Creation?...because Creation is surely the Universe and all it contains, but not the Heavenlies which were created prior to Creation...about which we only catch the vaguest glimpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted February 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2009 So G-d took Adam, and placed him in Eden, where Satan already dwelt? Perhaps the tree not only contained the forbidden fruit, but was also the dwelling of the serpent...forgive the illustration, but a bit like the Caterpillar with the hookah on the Mushroom in Alice in Wonderland. Preachbill...Second..You cant have the fall of Lucifer before the Fall of man...Sin and Death came by Adam, not prior by Lucifer, that would put Death in the world prior to the fall. So you think before pride entered Satans heart and he rebelled against G-d...Adam had already sinned and been banished from the Garden of Eden....and yet there was Satan in the Garden....hardly!!!! Mizzdy....Isn't there a verse somewhere that say that satan was in the garden before that maybe in Eze? But I don't think that Eve saw it as unusual for him to be there as it seems she was comfortable in talking to him. Its a stretch I suppose to think that but when I read the story its almost like she is talking to someone she knows. I agree...there seems to be a chummy degree of familiarity...could be that Satan in his glorious embodiment as a serpent was a creature of eye-catchingly dazzling beauty...and huge cunning...gained their trust, and then when the time was right, pointed out the attributes of the fruit the tree produced, and caused them to question the word of G-d. When Adam named all the creatures...he must have named the serpent? Did Satan exist before Creation?...because Creation is surely the Universe and all it contains, but not the Heavenlies which were created prior to Creation...about which we only catch the vaguest glimpse. I have often wondered about this verse: Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted February 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2009 Traveller... I have often wondered about this verse: Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You are in good company Sis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted February 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2009 Traveller...I have often wondered about this verse: Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You are in good company Sis! Great minds, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 'Botz' Did Satan exist before Creation?...because Creation is surely the Universe and all it contains, but not the Heavenlies which were created prior to Creation...about which we only catch the vaguest glimpse. I have always believed satan existed BEFORE Creation as we know it - didn't the rebellion happen BEFORE mankind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted February 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2009 'Botz' Did Satan exist before Creation?...because Creation is surely the Universe and all it contains, but not the Heavenlies which were created prior to Creation...about which we only catch the vaguest glimpse. I have always believed satan existed BEFORE Creation as we know it - didn't the rebellion happen BEFORE mankind? Precisely the point I was suggesting, in the light of Preachbills comment...unless I misunderstood it. I think you have to work backwards from Genesis...if that is the case, I presume the words 'In the beginning G-d created the Heavens and the earth' solely refer to our realm, and not the Heavenly realm...then you have to glean snippets from the revelation we have through the Scriptures to substantiate this. It is not guess-work, the Bible shows a realm in which G-d has dwelt and fellowshipped from all eternity...but there was a point in the history of THAT time, that He chose to create the Universe and subsequently mankind through the introduction of Adam and Eve. If one third of the host of Heaven was banished from the dwelling place of G-d....where did they descend to? Was earth already created, and mankind not?...This would bolster the idea of some that the days of creation were periods of time, and Satan and his rebellious angels frequented the earth, prior to the introduction of Mankind....I have never subscribed to the long period of time theory...and have always believed a day equalled an actual day...therfore I don't see that as a possibility. What I do contemplate...and in a way Job seems to indicate this possibility...Is that in the Heavenlies there were spheres of existence, and Satan was banished to an outer sphere...then when earth was formed he homed in on our planet as it was the only one that had life...to see what he could do....but one now moves into speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 'Botz' I think you have to work backwards from Genesis...if that is the case, I presume the words 'In the beginning G-d created the Heavens and the earth' solely refer to our realm, and not the Heavenly realm... My belief is the account of Creation is our world as we know it and the heavens as in sky, earths atmosphere and outer space... then you have to glean snippets from the revelation we have through the Scriptures to substantiate this. It is not guess-work, the Bible shows a realm in which G-d has dwelt and fellowshipped from all eternity...but there was a point in the history of THAT time, that He chose to create the Universe and subsequently mankind through the introduction of Adam and Eve yep, I'm with you... If one third of the host of Heaven was banished from the dwelling place of G-d....where did they descend to? Was earth already created, and mankind not?...This would bolster the idea of some that the days of creation were periods of time, and Satan and his rebellious angels frequented the earth, prior to the introduction of Mankind Yes, interesting point.. ....I have never subscribed to the long period of time theory...and have always believed a day equalled an actual day...therfore I don't see that as a possibility. I am a 24 hour day Creation believer.... What I do contemplate...and in a way Job seems to indicate this possibility...Is that in the Heavenlies there were spheres of existence, and Satan was banished to an outer sphere...then when earth was formed he homed in on our planet as it was the only one that had life...to see what he could do....but one now moves into speculation. BUT it is a possibility... Something that has always puzzled me is the verses in Mark. Chapter 5 verses 12 and 13...about the demons entering the swine...the swine ran over the cliff and drowned in the sea. My question is - where did the demons go? They didn't "die" ...so were they "released" to roam in another dimension or on earth looking for the next victim? They must have....so they come and go into the seen and unseen.....the different dimensions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted February 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2009 'Botz' I think you have to work backwards from Genesis...if that is the case, I presume the words 'In the beginning G-d created the Heavens and the earth' solely refer to our realm, and not the Heavenly realm... My belief is the account of Creation is our world as we know it and the heavens as in sky, earths atmosphere and outer space... then you have to glean snippets from the revelation we have through the Scriptures to substantiate this. It is not guess-work, the Bible shows a realm in which G-d has dwelt and fellowshipped from all eternity...but there was a point in the history of THAT time, that He chose to create the Universe and subsequently mankind through the introduction of Adam and Eve yep, I'm with you... If one third of the host of Heaven was banished from the dwelling place of G-d....where did they descend to? Was earth already created, and mankind not?...This would bolster the idea of some that the days of creation were periods of time, and Satan and his rebellious angels frequented the earth, prior to the introduction of Mankind Yes, interesting point.. ....I have never subscribed to the long period of time theory...and have always believed a day equalled an actual day...therfore I don't see that as a possibility. I am a 24 hour day Creation believer.... What I do contemplate...and in a way Job seems to indicate this possibility...Is that in the Heavenlies there were spheres of existence, and Satan was banished to an outer sphere...then when earth was formed he homed in on our planet as it was the only one that had life...to see what he could do....but one now moves into speculation. BUT it is a possibility... Something that has always puzzled me is the verses in Mark. Chapter 5 verses 12 and 13...about the demons entering the swine...the swine ran over the cliff and drowned in the sea. My question is - where did the demons go? They didn't "die" ...so were they "released" to roam in another dimension or on earth looking for the next victim? They must have....so they come and go into the seen and unseen.....the different dimensions.... I think most of us have asked exactly that same question His girl, but it is as if we are told what to do about demons, but not given any further instruction on their origin, function or abode. We know that we live in a visible world, and they inhabit the unseen world...and yet they are in our world, and are real...just invisible. This may sound a bit weird, but it is just a way to describe what I feel....sometimes when you have exerted yourself too much in sport, or even been bending down too long and stand up suddenly (postural hypertension) your mind can enter almost a state of limbo, and this present world becomes fuzzy and distant, and voices fade to the back-ground...it is as if you are on the periphery of another dimension...and just for an instant, everything that seemed important in this world, no longer takes on the same purpose, as you try to focus on this blurred dimension. It also happens if you are about to faint...doctors would just describe these things as lack of oxygen in the blood, resulting in hallucinatory visions...which may well be the case, but it still shows a similarity about existence of a different dimension within our own. For example when a person dies, they leave the shell of their body behind, but they are immediately somewhere else and we cannot reach them however much we may long to do so...but one day we shall be with them if our trust was in the L-rd. There are so many dead ends in trying to fathom some of these things out,(from a purely biblical perspective...there is no other) but sometimes in the trying G-d may well show us other truths, that bear relation to what we are seeking to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizzdy Posted February 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 173 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,911 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 10 Joined: 03/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2009 I agree...there seems to be a chummy degree of familiarity...could be that Satan in his glorious embodiment as a serpent was a creature of eye-catchingly dazzling beauty...and huge cunning...gained their trust, and then when the time was right, pointed out the attributes of the fruit the tree produced, and caused them to question the word of G-d. When Adam named all the creatures...he must have named the serpent? Did Satan exist before Creation?...because Creation is surely the Universe and all it contains, but not the Heavenlies which were created prior to Creation...about which we only catch the vaguest glimpse. Since 'serpent' can be translated as shiny one or illumined one I see satan as a you described him above, and as Eze. described him also. I so believe he was a familiar being in the garden and thats why Eve was not surprised and easily influenced by him. If he had shown up in the garden and she had never seen him I really think the two of them might have been calling out to God about it. As for naming real snakes or serpents I am sure thats what Adam did but since satan was with God before the creation, my opinion, there would have been no reason to name him since God had already done that. I see God's realm existing always so our heavens and earth are completely separated from His. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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