Bremerton

Just a suggestion... Leave out the quotes to other people if you can. This is one of the hardest threads I've ever tried to follow because there is about one sentence of meaningful reply to about 6 inches of quotes.

For those of you unaware of the correlation between the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit which happened in real time according to the Springs Feasts, I would suggest giving this a quick once over for the significance of Jesus' Jewishness: http://biblicalholidays.com/ Jesus was Jewish and through them in particular God gave mankind a most perfect revelation of His eternal plan. Nobody can say for sure how God will deal with people who have never heard the gospel... aborted babies, natives of the jungles of Africa, Asia and South America, and everyone else who simply had never heard the gospel or received Christ in this life. We can give our opinions of what this portion of scripture means, or how this or that doctrine is better than that other doctrine or the one over there. Only a fool would claim to know the mind of God in all of His wisdom, mercy and glory. Did Jesus die for everyone? I think that Jesus was the fulfillment of the first part of a wonderful plan that allowed free thinking and free-willed man to become reconciled with a perfect, holy, loving and just Creator. I believe that those who have heard the truth and reject it are in for a very troubling post life event when they stand before God and give account for their lives, their rebellious and wicked hearts, and for all the souls they brought down with them. I believe it will be a terrifying event that we are scarcely able to internalize in terms of what perfect justice will look like on that day. The good news, the gospel, is that for those who have heard and in this followed Messiah as God and King, we will be the recipients of the wonders of God's mercy, grace and unmerited favor. It truly is good news. The best news mankind has ever received. To top all that off God gave us the Holy Spirit as a helper, guide and comforter until He comes again and fulfills all things. I believe that the Fall Feasts can tell us much of what is to come, but it doesn't doing any good to obsess over something that is nothing but good news for us. The dates might be interesting to know, but we've been told in no uncertain terms that we wont know exactly when this happens. In the mean time all we need to do is to tell as many people as we can the good news. Telling people that they are going to burn in hell forever is not telling someone the good news of Jesus Christ. We don't know who God will judge, when, how long and a thousand other details that are beyond our control and frankly not very important. We were instructed to spread the word, not spread hate and fear.

My beliefs on this are probably a bit different than you are accustomed to hearing, but I'll share them in the hopes adding more dimension to you question than what one usually hears as people try to discount what is said in Hebrews 6... It usually said that the writer of Hebrews was referring to people returning to Judaism and the law. However, you don't get that sense when you read it. I don't at least. The reversion to Judaism argument is typically supported with Christian doctrine and writings elsewhere by other apostles regarding grace, faith and salvation, however let's look at what Hebrews says.. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. The condition is "if they fall away". The word in Greek for "if they fall away" is parapiptō 1) to fall beside a person or thing 2) to slip aside a) to deviate from the right path, turn aside, wander b) to error c) to fall away (from the true faith): from worship of Jehovah There is no reference to reverting from Christianity to Judaism, it is about falling away, parapiptō. The question I think is "What does it mean to fall away?", not a specialized warning aimed at Jews only and not applicable to the rest of us. It may even be what the writer was writing about, but I would respectfully disagree that the scope is limited to damning Jews, and giving everyone else a pass for violating the same principle. It is very rare that a person truly falls away. In fact, I've only seen it happen once, and even then I am not convinced the person was actually saved to begin with. Typically people who are hostile to God will claim a religious home, going to a religious school, going to church, etc., but I think we can all agree that those things do not make a person born again. So, for a person to truly fall away I think it is first necessary for them to be saved. That's my first point. Secondly, I don't believe this refers to backsliding. It is inconsistent with salvation and the good news of Jesus Christ, but I do believe that a person who is living out a period of their life in unrepentant sin should understand that God can and will forgive you, but there are consequences for playing games with God. everything we do in this life will be tested as with fire, and unless you want to be what is described in scripture as a smoking stubble of hay that barely survived and will go through eternity with nothing, it is a stupid game to play with God. I do believe that it refers to people who are saved, and for whatever reason, take issue with God and apprehend themselves and make war with God. I can't judge the man, but I feel that Charles Darwin is a possible candidate for this. He believed in God and seems to have been a Christian, and then when tragedy stuck loved ones, he turned on a dime and made God his enemy and spent the rest of his life trying to figure how it could that he (and we) didn't need God. Considering the number of people affected by Darwin, I think it is somewhat safe to assume that that man was marked fro destruction, and is exactly the rare individual spoken of in Hebrews 6.

Demons can not possess Christians. They can attack Christians, establish strongholds within the lives of people or the churches they belong to, but they can not in fact possess Christians. Spiritual warfare is life. We are always engaged in spiritual warfare whether we like it or not. Several years ago as I turned from decades of sinful backsliding, I was under intense Satanic or Demonic attack. The closer I drew to God, the more intense the attack became. I suppose you could say that they were surrounding me and flipping out that a once powerless Christian, was turning back to God and unraveling decades of work. In the name of Jesus I confronted them, and as I prayed, literally as I prayed, God delivered a breakthrough in my life. In the course of a single day I was jobless and homeless for refusing to turn away from God, and when I acknowledged that I was under attack because of my faith, God was true to my use of the name of His son, ended the attack and immediately (as I was praying) provided me with an escape. While I was praying my phone rang with a job offer that got me out of the situation I was in, and my housing problem was likewise solved without a hitch. I continued following Him and my life hasn't been the same since. That's my testimony of spiritual warfare, and although I see it as a powerful testimony to God's glory, I also remember the intense pressure and mess surrounding the ultimate victory. I loved the result, but I have to admit I did not like being under demonic assault and if I had my way, I would never repeat it again.

A few points... If the people you are talking to aren't saved and are bringing this up, I would tell them "All of the heavy elements on this planet are the result of 4 previous generations of stars. This would make the biblical account amazingly accurate, wouldn't you agree?" If you are talking to Christians who seemed disturbed by what it might mean, I would tell them "It is what it is and regardless of what it is, it is our place to learn from the truth, not change it because it makes us feel uncomfortable". I'm sure folks who believed in a round earth had a rough time until the matter was settled. Most of the opposition came from the church, who then took another look at what the scriptures actually said (as opposed to what they had argued it said previously), and then came to grips with the truth of the matter that always was. Earlier someone used a translation for earth and said that it is actually translated as land. Ironically, the last time I heard the Hebrew word eretz used, was by a proponent of the local flood theory. It was written by a scientist (a geologist I believe) that was also a Christian. You can read it here for a very good word word study on the Hebrew word eretz: http://www.asa3.org/asa/PSCF/2002/PSCF9-02Hill.pdf I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what she wrote, it's just a good word study. The problem with declaring with a sense of absolute certainty what scripture says or means, means that you are approaching it as something that you have under control. It's not that many of us fail to understand scripture, it's that our approach needs much to be desired. If we approach scripture, each and every time we read it, with an open mind to God and a fanatical loyalty to the truth, we will learn much more about what it says and what it means. If we use the bible as a self licking ice cone that supports our belief system in various doctrines (no matter how good they may be), you're better off putting down your bible for a while and replacing it with one with no cross references or notes written in the margins or at the bottom of the page. Get one that leaves a wide gap in the margins so you can write your own notes! It will change the way you read scripture forever, and it will deepen your understanding of scripture a thousand fold what it would have been with all of those PhD opinions written in them. If you had any serious questions that you needed to refer to the original language to understand better, do a word study. Just leave others opinions out of it and allow God's Holy Spirit to teach, lead and guide you.