Bold Believer

Most Believers say "I want to go to heaven" or 'I'm going to heaven when I die." Is that really true? Yes and no. Heaven is the abode of God, angels and spirits. The Third Heaven belongs to God. The angels and righteous spirits awaiting the resurrection go to heaven, but our ultimate destination is the New Earth, NOT heaven. Man was never made to dwell in heaven, but on the earth in an Edenic state. God created Earth just for us and on the Last Day the earth will be made new (renewed if you will) and the Church (the Bride, the Holy City) will down out of heaven having met Christ in the air, and we will reoccupy the earth. I'm not sure where the idea of eternity in heaven comes from, but the Scripture doesn't indicate that to be the ul;timate case. Will you go to heaven as a Believer? In spirit to await the resurrection, absolutely. After the resurrection, no. That is not to say that we will be 'earthbound' so to speak, only that our ultimate home will be the New Earth. (Before anyone asks, no, I am NOT a Jehovah's Witness. I don't buy a bit of their heresies. That said, a stopped clock is right twice a day.)

Hiya Bold Believer... I'm curious how you came to believe in the different types of souls? I've never seen any evidence that animals have any soul at all (by definition), so I would be curious about the 'new' type of soul, and its definition. Does the bible describe different types of souls? Also, the concept of animal souls being raised at the resurrection of the dead is an entirely new concept to me as well. Is there something said in the bible on this, because it doesn't seem to line up with anything I've ever heard? Simple Axx. Different creation, different soul. The word 'nephesh' means soul in Hebrew. Man became a living soul. Paul says that there are different types of flesh. If there are different kinds of flesh, then there must be different types of souls as well. The soul is our sentience, our mind, will and emotions. Animals have a mind to think with and they have instincts and emotions. An animal can experience fear, guilt, sadness, just as a human can. It doesn't have the full range of emotions that humans do. It also doesn't have a spirit. It has a conscience of some sort however. (When Spot drops a deuce on the living room floor and his master comes in and sees what he did, and scolds him, does Spot not drop his hairy head in shame? That's both shame AND guilt, evidence of conscience.) As for the resurrection, it is at the resurrection that ALL CREATION is redeemed as well. The earth gets a makeover, and the curse is lifted. It therefore makes sense that the animal creation would be a part of that redemption. Remember John 3:16 says God so loved the kosmos or creation. God loved everything He made. Men require salvation; animals, redemption. Animals don't need to be saved, but they need to redeemed from the effects of the curse, because they were made from the ground, even as we are, hence the curse affects not just the ground, but the things made]/i] from the ground, men and animals. Now will specific pets be resurrected? Good question. Personally, I think so, but that's me. I am convinced that animals will be amongst the population of the New Earth, redeemed from their base instincts which currently dominate them. One of the things that I believe will occur in the eternal state is the return of equity (fairness in life). How fair is it for an animal to be abused by a cruel master and then on top of that, simply cease to exist? My God is a God of equity. Sin causes inequity, and when sin no longer exists, equity will return. Finally, I'd ask this question: When did God ever do anything in vain or without purpose? As far as I can tell from Scripture, never. So then, why would He create something just to completely destroy it? Even the wicked are not completely destroyed, they remain in a conscious state for eternity in the lake of fire and are tormented there.

The online computer game company toplaying.com has under sports games a track and field game which they call "Running Jesus", a game in which all of the runners look like Jesus and carry a cross on their back. They describe this game as 'funny'. Funny. I urge each of you to go to toplaying.com and go to 'contact' at the bottom of the page and send these people a letter asking them to remove the game. (If this game depicted Mohammed, SOMEONE would be losing their head.)

Creation does NOT mean 'all who have free will'. Creation is the kosmos, or ALL things which have been created. Do animals have souls? Absolutely. Do they have the SAME KIND of soul as a human? ABSOLUTELY not. Will animals be in heaven? No And neither will we. Once the resurrection occurs, we dwell on the New Earth. heaven is the province of spirits, not bodies. We may have access to the New Heaven in our resurrected bodies, or we may not, I can't say. I know that Jesus the High Priest has access, because he is both God and man. I believe an animal soul goes into the earth and sleeps until the Last Day. It is then brought back to life at the resurrection of the dead. It may or may not have a new body, I am convinced it will have new HABITS so we need worry about stepping in anything or being sprayed by a skunk or bitten by a dog. God sent Christ to redeem the earth as well as mankind, since animals are OF the earth, it only makes sense that they would share in its redemption. Don't be concerned about your beloved animals not making it to eternity. Care of one's animals is even tied to showing whether a person is righteous to some degree. Pro 12:10 A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But {even} the compassion of the wicked is cruel. (that is not to say that an unbeliever who cares for his animals is saved, merely that he or she has some degree of righteousness.)

I have never heard of vegetarian being a religion... and I've never seen it argued that the Bible "taught" vegetarian practices. A vegetarian is simply someone who does not eat meat, for any range of reasons, like myself. Seventh Day Adventism advocates vegetarianism. Pagan religions also (Buddhism and Hinduism) advocate veganism because of their erroneous teachings on reincarnation. As long as long you make sure your meat is cooked to a proper temperature, you should have no problem. Rare meat is I believe a violation of the Acts 15 admonition. As for pork, I think the same admonition applies. Rare pork is a carrier of trichinosis, a deadly bacteria. I prefer beef and chicken to pork personally. Now and then though, the urge for a ham and cheese sandwich comes along, or perhaps sausage and eggs. I will say that the funk of a chicken farm is enough to make ANYONE consider vegetarianism briefly.

"Most Christians" assume that is what the phrase means. Assuming anything is folly. The abomination that makes desolate was the Roman Army which destroyed the temple and burned Jerusalem. See Luke 21:20.

Who gives the south facing end of a northbound (place favorite animal here).

I was looking back over this thread and noticed something that Nikki wrote. "Strong on e-Sword translates the word covenant as a confederacy or league, which changes the meaning completely, and has nothing to do with a peace treaty." I find that interesting because Strong's on Blue Letter Bible translates "beriyth" thusly: 1) covenant, alliance, pledge a) between men 1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man) 2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects) 3) agreement, pledge (man to man) 4) alliance (of friendship) 5) alliance (of marriage) b) between God and man 1) alliance (of friendship) 2) covenant (divine ordinance with signs or pledges) It can mean an agreement of ANY kind. In the Daniel case, it referred to the New Covenant in Christ's blood. What other covenant was confirmed during the 70th week? None.

I am not sure that is true. An unbeliever can call out to God for help without the Holy Spirit. I should add one caveat. I don't think God would give serious considerations to just any prayer of an unbeliever. But if they called out to Him in desperation, like the Syro Phonecian woman, I don't think God would be without compassion or that He would turn a deaf ear to them. That is not to say that God would grant their request, as God does not always grant the requests of believers when they ask. But I don't think we can put God in a box and say yes or no 100% either way. God is under no obligation to anyone. That he listens to us at all is an act of His benevolent grace. The Holy Spirit would be the one PROMPTING said unbeliever to pray, therefore, my point that they are not an unbeliever at all, but a NEW believer.

It's obvious from the context that the man didn't know who Jesus was, or how he wound up healed . He actually sounds pretty confused. The Pharisees put down Jesus to the man in verse 29 Jhn 9:29 "We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where He is from." You can almost hear the sarcasm in their voices. "...but as for this man, we do not know where he is from." The man follows up with what he does know. Jhn 9:30 The man answered and said to them, "Well, here is an amazing thing, that you do not know where He is from, and {yet} He opened my eyes. It's really a verbal sparring match. The man returns the barb of the previous verse: i.e. Humph, you're the big religious authority and you have no clue where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. The formerly blind man then continues: Jhn 9:31-33 "We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him. Since the beginning of time it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind. If this man were not from God, He could do nothing." The blind man is basically telling the Pharisees: IF this man was not from God, He would not have been able to heal my blindness. When he says "We know God doesn't hear sinners" it might well be a jab at the religious leaders. Apparently the man had sat in their assembles with his parents and heard the teaching and maybe he came to them to be healed and nothing happened, yet, Jesus comes out of nowhere and heals him. I'm not so sure this verse is one to use to prove or disprove whether or not God hears unbelievers. As to whether God hears people who don't believe, I don't think He does. Usually, the prayers of an unbeliever are 'rescue me and I promise' affairs. They have no intention of worshiping Him once He does what they ask, so why should He answer? They despise His Word (Jesus) and His scripture, so their prayer is an abomination. When someone who has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit prays a prayer for salvation, they are showing belief, so then they are not unbelievers, they're NEW believers.

1. What was Messiah's inheritance? The nations. 2. Did Jesus tell the Israeli leaders that Israel would be replaced? Yes he did. "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. (Mt 21:43) 3. Just before the Ascension, what did the Apostles ask Jesus? Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6) (This presupposes that the Kingdom had in fact been taken away from Israel.) 4. What was Jesus' response? He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; (Acts 1:7) In other words...DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, IT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THE FATHER SAYS IT WILL, which presupposes that at some point, the Jews will get the Kingdom back. 5. Daniel said that the saints of the Most High would receive the Kingdom and possess it forever and forever. 'But the saints of the Highest One will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, for all ages to come.' (Dan 7:18) 6. Daniel also said the little horn which came from the Fourth Beast would persecute (make war) on those saints for three and a half years UNTIL THE TIME THAT THEY WOULD POSSESS THE KINGDOM. 'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the court will sit {for judgment,} and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of {all} the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom {will be} an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.' This persecution occurred just before the Jewish rebellion in 66 AD and overlaps it slightly. Revelation is all about the destruction of the Old Order and the giving over of the Kingdom to the Saints of the Most High. Nero did fight against and prevail over the Saints of the Most High, and Revelation states that the Kingdoms of this world (referring to the Roman Empire) had become the Kingdoms of our Lord Jesus. (It was an established fact to God that He HAD WON the battle.) Once Rome and apostate Israel were both dealt with, the battle was over. The saints of the Most High would reign, and so they did. Has the Kingdom been restored to Israel? Only inasmuch as Israel responds to Messiah. I believe eventually the Jews will be brought back in, Paul seems to indicate it. It hasn't happened yet.

The idea of separate laity and clergy supposedly came out of Laodicea, or so I have read. Whether that is true or not, I can't say, but it certainly seems like it might be correct. That said, many of us have seen the situation arise where leaders are adored and idolized in the Church, from the Pope, to Hal Lindsey, Tim Lahaye, Jerry Falwell, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Oral Roberts and so forth and so on. The church 'leadership' is beginning to remind me of the Jewish elders of Jesus' time in that respect. I recently tried the senior pastor of a particular church locally regarding the use of some of their property. I called, I got an answering machine, I left messages, I got no replies, Whenever I DID reach a person, it was always his secretary, who told me she would leave messages. It was obvious that she didn't because my calls were never returned. FINALLY, I managed to reach this man, and when I did, I got very non-committal answers to my questions. He told me that he would consult with the people in his church who insured the property I wanted to use and get right back to me ASAP. That was almost six months ago. This man's integrity is sorely lacking. If you say you're going to do something: DO IT. It took me close to two months JUST TO REACH THIS MAN. That is not counting close to another month I spent trying to get through to him. It truly is disgusting that he couldn't give me a straight answer and acted as though my request was unimportant. I wonder what he's like to reach for his congregation.

Muslims don't believe the Cross was faked, they believe in that old crock of poo, the swoon theory. Basically, Jesus lapsed into unconsciousness, the Roman stabbed him and took him down and he was revived in the coolness of the tomb. Medically impossible, unfortunately for them and easy enough to disprove. Even the internal Biblical evidence proves that it's medically impossible. The Roman soldier's spear punctured Jesus' pericardial sac and blood and water came out, separated. This is a sign that he was ALREADY dead, were he alive, the blood and fluid (technically not water, but pericardial fluid)would have been mixed. A prominent Christian doctor did an article on the subject 25-30 years ago. Islam is a weak caricature of the old Jewish order, with animal sacrifices and a law that must be followed to the letter. It will not survive much longer, eventually, the Magogists will demand it be outlawed. I will go as far to say that I think Islam will be the very first religion outlawed as the humanists continue their march. It's easy to want outlaw Islam, with their penchant for violence.

I never EVER said that Nero OR Antiochus were 'the antichrist.' I have gone out of my way to tell you what John has said concerning antichrist. Antichrist has NOTHING TO DO WITH REVELATION. Antichrist is not mentioned in Revelation. Antichrist is only EVER mentioned in John's letters. The term is used 5 times in the WHOLE NEW TESTAMENT. Modern teachers have built an entire doctrine around a myth and a misunderstanding. I invite you to read I John and II John for definition of who is antichrist is. Hint: It is not a future dictator. The mark of the beast was acquiescence to the Roman emperors as god(s). Apparently, you haven't read a thing I've written friend and my fingers are tired. The mark is the exact opposite of Deut 6:8 where Israel is told to put the Law of God on their foreheads and or right hands. It's a contrasting statement to Deut 6. BECAUSE the Israeli leadership had led the unbelieving portion of Israel into apostasy, they were taking the mark by refusing to believe Jesus was Messiah. (i.e.: If you won't take the mark of God and worship Him, you will take the mark of the beast and worship him. It was not a literal stamp, it was an action. They were replacing the TRUE GOD with a god of their own making (as apostate Israel had done over and over over again throughout their existence). Christ HAS set up His earthly kingdom. Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within us. Furthermore, as it is written, the Kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteous, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Believers are HIS earthly kingdom, Christ reigns over us (and the rest of the world) from heaven at the Father's right hand. Jesus clearly stated that He had been given all authority in heaven and earth. HE is in charge. The Kingdom started 2000 plus years ago. It was given over unto the saints of the Most High at the destruction of the Old Jewish Order in 70 AD. When Rome was defeated and apostate Israel punished, we were ushered into the Kingdom. The marriage supper of the Lamb occurred (Rev 19), it was a SPIRITUAL thing. We began to reign WITH him 'in the heavenly places' and that reign was and IS manifested on the earth by and through our good deeds. We are supposed to influence societies, teach the Gospel and give peace to men in their hearts by reconciling them to God through Christ, which the Church set out to do. It's trickle down at its finest. You tell someone, they get saved and tell others and the process repeats itself. Some of those saved people get called to govern. Some get called to medicine. Some get called to education and so forth and so on. IF a wicked ruler comes up, and a wicked nation arises, it's the job of Christian nations to put it down. (As was done with Hitler.) But now, Gog is loose, gathering up his army, attacking the people of God (the Holy City) and surrounding it, Does he succeed? No. Not ultimately. Because Christ will return when Gog and Magog reach the point where they have us surrounded. He will burn them up. The Church will not BE raptured. The whole Church will never be raptured, because some of us are dead in Christ and only a live saint can be translated (raptured). The resurrection of the righteous occurs first, followed immediately by the rapture of any living Believers AT THE LAST DAY. Look at what Paul says: 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 1Cr 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of {the} archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. First the dead, THEN THE LIVE. You aren't going anywhere until the last day. unless you die first. IF you're alive on the last day, THEN you will get raptured. (Personally, I think the number of translated saints will be very small.) The apostasy hasn't taken place yet? Yeah, right. One 'church' after another ordaining homosexuals, changing the Bible to suit gender, or taking out parts about hell, or claiming the BIble is flawed; sexual misconduct out the wazoo, Churches claiming God wants us rich, Churches claiming abortion is OK. Churches claiming Christ was only a man. But the apostasy hasn't happened yet? ON WHAT PLANET!? You're right in the middle of it man! The one world government was Rome. Rome ruled the known world. The Fourth Beast IS THE LAST BEAST. THERE ARE NO MORE. Rome was the last great empire. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER.

Then counting this one . . . if you read it, make's 3 Exactly! Ideas alone, and speculation. Is that a good thing? I would venture to say no? That's the problem. Speculation based on the incorrect assumption that the book is primarily about future events. It isn't. It's primarily about PAST events, specifically the punishment of Jerusalem double for her sins and the destruction of the Temple and the ushering in of the Meesianic Age.

Where are you getting your definition for a thousand? Strongs has it uncertain affinity, a thousand, and each occurance of the word thousand denotes a specific period of time such as how long the two witnesses are in Jerusalem. An uncertain affinity IS an indefinite time period. In other words, similiar to the English expression, 'I've told you a thousand times.' The two witnesses are not in Jerusalem for a thousand years.

Brother, you're 27 years old. You are, as Scripture puts it, 'your own man.' Stop worrying about Mom and Dad's opinions. If you were 17 that would be different. The military is often a good place to gain a useful civilian skill. Think hard about what particular field interests you and tell your recruiter that is what you're interested in doing in the military. There is nothing that says if you join the service, you have to be infantry or armor. Valuable disciplines can be learned in the military. Jesus didn't condemn military service, despite the fact he lived in the cruelest Empire the world had ever seen. He admired soldiers from all that I have read, telling them to be content with their pay and not to shake anyone down while on occupation duty. Don't feel that the military is your only option, but should you choose it, you've not chosen poorly by any means.

Specifically, Israel's LEADERSHIP is the 2d beast in Revelation, the one which comes out of the Land. The first beast is Rome. Communism was a rotten tree, Reagan just gave it the push it needed to topple over, but that is not germane to the topic.

The prince spoken of here is written with a little "p" which is showing that it is not talking about Jesus, it is talking about a man. If it were talking about Jesus it would look like this "Prince". This scripture is talking about a future person that will come from the same people who in 70 a.d. destroyed the city and the temple. That people was Rome led by Titus. This "prince" will be a descendant from them. The prince who is to come is the anti-christ. Daniel 9:27 does speak of a treaty. The word covenant means treaty. The Hebrew word used here is berith. See definition: Hebrew NASB Number: 1285 Hebrew Word: ‏בְּרִית‎ Transliterated Word: berith (136b) Root: from an unused word; Definition: a covenant:-- List of English Words and Number of Times Used allied (1), allies* (1), covenant (275), covenants (1), El-berith* (1), league (2), treaty (4).

2,000 years is less than a snap of a finger in eternity. Yes, some feel it is things that already happened, some think it is things yet to come, some think a little of both. Jesus said that the things would come upon THAT GENERATION. I prefer to believe Him rather than the modern teachers who try and make the past fit the future. The resurrection of the Believers, the translation of live Believers (call it the rapture if you like) and the reanimation of the dead unto their judgment in the Lake of Fire with their Daddy the devil are all yet to come. We the righteous will inherit the New Earth and have access to the New Heaven (Rev 21). If I were a FULL preterist, I would believe those things had already taken place, I don't. Again, what is meant by "That Generation"? Is this the people who will be around for the next 80 years, or is this referring to this generation of mankind. Somewhere in my spirit there has always been a sense that this refers to this time in history. One generation before CHRIST and another after, or one generation before the flood and another after. I understand your point and am not argueing it. I have always sen something in the phrase that has caused me to ponder it on numerous occassion. The word genea means generation, a span of roughly 30-40 years. Historically, we know that 70 AD feel within the generation which Jesus was talking to at the time. Your spirit is correct, it was the generation of that time to which he spoke, not one 2000+ years into the future.

Now to the rest of your questions: 2. when did the anti-Christ Make everyone on planet earth receive a mark in their right hand or forehead; So that those who would not receive the mark couldn't buy or sell The antichrist doesn't do this, the Land beast (the Jewish leadership did) I explained this in detail in a previous post in this thread. This mythical antichrist figure is not IN the Daniel text, therefore there is no need to read him into it. He does not exist. 3. The anti-christ and his entire army have a fight with Jesus Christ, and lose? ( this is how the anti-christ dies by the way) has anyone in history died this way? Are you referring to Revelation 19? Again, no antichrist is mentioned. You are adding this into the text and making unwarranted assumptions. It is the BEAST (Rome) whose power is broken by Christ. The Beast (Rome) and the False Prophet (the apostate Jewish leaders) are cast into Gehenna and remain its only occupants until judgment day at the end of the Gog-magog rebellion. The battle in Rev 19 is not literal. It depicts the overthrow of Pagan Rome the Fourth Beast of Daniel and his girlfriend Apostate Israel the Whore. The marriage supper of the Lamb is depicted here as well. It's a depiction of the defeat of the enemies of God by Christ himself. Did that happen? You bet. The Church emerged triumphant through Christ, the Roman empire broke up into 10 toes and they were eventually brought to Christ. It's imagery depicting a literal event. God kicked Rome's butt and destroyed the false kingdom the apostate Jewish leaders set up, just as Daniel said. This also resulted in Satan being bound from deceiving the nations (remember in Greek, there are no chapter divisions) and the Gospel went out to the WHOLE WORLD and it prevailed through the Church. 4. And when did Jesus Christ sit on the throne in Jerusalem for 1,000 years? Christ began to rule the day he returned into heaven. The Jerusalem he reigns from IS THE ONE FROM ABOVE, not the earthly one. There is no text that demands Messiah literally be present to run his Kingdom. The reign of Christ from heaven extends over the whole earth. He's been reigning for over 1000 years and will continue to reign because as Daniel says, His kingdom will be forever. 5. when did the anti-christ Form a one world alliance where, He is ruler over the entire planet? No such person in the text, therefore I must gather you've read him into it again. Satan does not, nor has he ever, ruled the entire planet either. ROME ruled the known world but even then, Roman rule was not absolute, there were places where the Empire never reached. The idea that an enemy of God would have complete rule over the whole earth flies in the face of Scripture and IS UTTERLY PREPOSTEROUS. It is written: The earth is THE LORD'S and the fulness of it, the world and everyone who dwells in it.

I don't need to use English language rules, we're transliterating Hebrew. The capitals were added in English, in the Hebrew they don't exist. The only prince mentioned in the text is Messiah, therefore it's proper to believe that Messiah is the prince all the way through the text. Remember Messiah doesn't become King Messiah until the resurrection. All through his Mt 22 and 23 teachings and angry dissertation, he refers to the Father as the King. The covenant is confirmed during the 70th week by Messiah just before his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. No duration for the covenant is ever mentioned, so you're ASSUMING that the covenant is 7 years in length, BUT THE TEXT NEVER SAYS THAT, so you're reading something into the text that is not there. As I told JIME, the covenant is permanent, not seven years long. Jer 31:33,34 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." The Romans were the instrument which were used to enact the days of vengeance; then they were themselves punished as the Empire crumbled under the weight of the Gospel mountain (Daniel). Again, as with the covenant, people read in some antichrist figure who is never mentioned in the text. There is no antichrist mentioned, ONLY JESUS CHRIST. Jesus is the covenant maker, not some mythical antichrist dictator who does not exist.

The prince spoken of here is written with a little "p" which is showing that it is not talking about Jesus, it is talking about a man. If it were talking about Jesus it would look like this "Prince". This scripture is talking about a future person that will come from the same people who in 70 a.d. destroyed the city and the temple. That people was Rome led by Titus. This "prince" will be a descendant from them. The prince who is to come is the anti-christ. Daniel 9:27 does speak of a treaty. The word covenant means treaty. The Hebrew word used here is berith. See definition: Hebrew NASB Number: 1285 Hebrew Word: ‏בְּרִית‎ Transliterated Word: berith (136b) Root: from an unused word; Definition: a covenant:-- List of English Words and Number of Times Used allied (1), allies* (1), covenant (275), covenants (1), El-berith* (1), league (2), treaty (4). —NASB Greek-Hebrew Dictionary The Hebrew word for week is shabua. See definition: Hebrew NASB Number: <A name=h7620>7620 Hebrew Word: ‏שָׁבוּעַ‎ Transliterated Word: shabua (988d) Root: from 7651; Definition: a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week:-- List of English Words and Number of Times Used seven (1), week (4), Weeks (5), weeks (14). —NASB Greek-Hebrew Dictionary So one week is 7 years. So the treaty was to be for 7 years. So there was 69 weeks or 483 years. There is still another 7 years to be accounted for. That is the 7 years of the "firm covanent." The time of the tribulation before Jesus comes back to rule and reign on earth. First of all, the capitals are of little consequence. WEere translating from Hebrew. Messiah the prince confirms the covenant at the Passover with his disciples.This occurs IN the 70th week. Messiah is cut off for us in the middle of the week. It is then that He causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease, not literally, but in its effectiveness. We don't NEED the blood of bulls and goats anymore, we have a better covenant through Messiah. Second of all, Imperial Rome became a tool of God to punish apostate Israel and destroy the Temple because the Tabernacle of God is with men now. Yes, Titus and his armies were the abomination of desolation, but permission to be there ultimately came from God, they were there to fulfill the days of vengeance. The duration of the covenant is never mentioned, merely that a covenant is made. The covenant is permenant, not seven years. I've been a Christian 35 years, the covenant is still good. The covenant has been active over 2000 years, it's still good. The 70th week is accounted for quite well, thank you. Christ died and was resurrected at the midpoint, then the Ascension, Pentecost and the beginning of the Kingdom all occurred during the remainder of the 70th week to round it out. There was no gap in the week. The only gap in the whole episode is the one between Messiah's returning to heaven and the destruction of Jerusalem. (This is past the 70th week, but within the generation to whom Jesus preached, taught and healed.)

2. Revelation 13: 16- 18; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 19:20 In order to understand Rev 13, you have to start at the beginning of the chapter, not at verse 16. The imagery is that of Daniel, even the wording is similar. John sees a beast, then describes the beast. The beast is a composite of all of Daniel's beasts, it has characteristics of each. It gets three things from the dragon (who has already been revealed to be the devil earlier): strength (power), a throne and great authority. If this beast looks like Daniel's Fourth Beast, that is because it IS. Historically, Daniel's Fourth Beast is Rome. John is writing during the reign of...Rome. The beast has seven heads and one of them receives a mortal wound, but the Beast keeps going. (Nero committed suicide by stabbing himself in the throat and his secretary finished him off. For a brief period, there was tumult in the Empire, but it got straightened out and Rome continued.) Naturally the world was awed and they worshipped the devil (whether they realized it or not) by giving the awe which belongs only to God to pagan Rome. They worshiped Rome as well, saying "Who is like Rome? Who can fight and defeat Rome?" Then, Rome gets a mouth. If this sounds a lot like Daniel 7:8, that's because the LORD is talking about the same things here. The mouth and the little horn with the eyes and the big mouth of Daniel 7 are the same individual head...NERO. Nero is the epitome of Imperial Roman power. Arrogant. Boastful. Rotten to the core. Self-indulgent. Nero persecuted the saints of God for 42 months and overcame them. He used Believers for torches to light his sick garden parties. As bad as all of the emperors were before him, Nero was worse. He cursed the very God of heaven, he spoke against the Church (the tabernacle of God) and those Christian who died under his hand (thus being in heaven). Nero had power over all of the nations because he headed Rome. If your heart was set upon the things of the earth, you worshiped Rome in your heart, because your name isn't in the Book of Life (you're not saved). To use the modern vernacular: Nero is 'your boy', he's the man. He runs Rome and nobody can stop him because nobody can stop Rome, the two are inexorably linked. Rome was your god, you got everything worth having from Rome: your protection, your livelyhood, everything. Then John sees another beast. Huh? A fifth beast? Not really. This beast doesn't originate from the same place as Daniel's beasts; they came from the sea. This beast comes from the earth...or most correctly The Land. As in the Land of Israel. This Land Beast has two characteristics which should stand out: 1. Horns like a Lamb 2. Speech of a dragon He looks like a lamb, seemingly harmless. He talks like his daddy the Devil. Now...what did Jesus tell the Pharisees in John 8:44. Jhn 8:44-"You are of {your} father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own {nature,} for he is a liar and the father of lies. Hmm. 'Who's your daddy'? Ouch. So then this Land Beast springs from apostate Israel, that portion of the nation which rejected Jesus as Messiah. The Land Beast has the authority of John's Beast. He can exercise the authority (not the power, the authority) of Rome. The Jewish leadership exercised Roman power and aided Rome in the persecution of Believers. Rome even gave the Jews permission to deal with criminals under their own law in all but death penalty cases. (Jn 18:31) Act 9:1,2 Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. As we progress, we find the Land Beast makes the Land and the people who live in it worship the First Beast (Rome). By failing to lead them to Messiah, the leadership of Israel makes them worship Satan, through Rome, the only other available thing to worship. Remember those fatal words in John 19:15: Jhn 19:15 So they cried out, "Away with {Him,} away with {Him,} crucify Him!" Pilate *said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar." and these words in Matthew 27 Mat 27:20 But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowds to ask for Barabbas and to put Jesus to death. Mat 27:25 And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children! It was a case of worship Jesus or Satan and the Land Beast persuaded the people to pick....SATAN, through acquiescence to Rome. So then, the Land Beast is the Jewish leadership. This is further confirmed by the fact that the high priests had the authority to call fire down from heaven in the sight of men (sacrifices). Under Jewish law, when you wanted to make sacrifice, you went to the priests and elders and religious authorities. Now, the Jewish leadership caused the unfaithful Jews to surrender their Messiah to the Beast. They carried the authority of Rome to persecute the Believers. They caused the people to worship Rome through Caesar-worship and take the Mark of the Beast. Yikes! That dreadful Mark. Well just exactly what IS the Mark of the Beast, Rome? W O R S H I P. The mark of the beast is the exact opposite of Deuteronomy 6:8. Deu 6:8 "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. Rev 13:16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, See? EXACT OPPOSITES. Israel's rejection of Christ caused acceptance of Satan, the spiritual power behind Imperial Rome. The Jewish leadership caused Israel to make an icon out of Rome. Not a literal ikon, but an icon nevertheless, they caused them to make Rome 'bigger than life' if you will. Instead of magnifying God, and making Him bigger, they gave what rightfully belonged to God to pagan Rome, and thusly to Satan, who was behind Rome.