Bold Believer

Perhaps we're looking in the wrong place to find the extra years. I believe God brought the earth and everything to pass in six days and rested on the seventh. I am beginning to believe that any extra time begins at the eighth and preceding days. We are never told how much time passed between Creation and the Fall. Genesis 2 is a recap of chapter 1 and mostly the sixth day, but when we get to chapter 3, there is nothing to lead us to believe that a long time could not have passed. We have assumed that the events of Genesis 3 follow on the coat-tails of 1 and 2, but perhaps we have not assumed correctly. What if mankind existed for say 50 years between Creation and the Fall? Or even a year. Obviously, Adam and Eve didn't begin making children until AFTER the Fall. I figure that Adam worked the garden and took that time to learn all he needed to know from God and nature to do so. Does this mean that Adam and Eve could not have procreated before the Fall, most likely not but merely that they did not because whatever reason they were otherwise occupied. I definitely don't believe that there were millions of years involved, but we might draw some conclusions based on Genesis 3: 1. A period of time unknown to us and never revealed to Moses passed before the fall occurred. 2. The Fall did not occur immediately after the seventh day. 3. Between the seventh day and the Fall, Adam and Eve learned about their surroundings in the Garden. 4. Satan observed Adam and Eve and received instructions from God on what he was permitted to do, just as he did with Job. 5. Satan calculated how he would engineer the Fall. 6. Satan had free roam of the Garden and free access to it. 7. God knew what was about to transpire and set it in motion. 8. Adam and Eve never procreated until after the Fall because they were otherwise occupied. We are never told how old that Adam and Eve were when created. They could literally have been 14 or 15. She would have been in her prime child bearing years and he in his prime fathering years. Likewise, all the other animals would have been as well. Since Adam and Eve never procreated until after the Fall, perhaps none of the other animals did either, but were busily adapting to their new home as well, and getting used to everything around them. There is one last conclusion that we might draw as well: That the events of the Fall were a test to see whether or not Adam would obey or disobey, and that God knew he would disobey (because God knows all things from the beginning to the end) and knew that He would send Christ as the ultimate act of love. Some might have a problem with that, I personally don't because God is sovereign and does as He ultimately pleases for our ultimate good, regardless of what transpires in between.

because it's rediculous to think that Adam roamed with a T-Rex. lolololol Plus, according to the bible, from Adam til now it dates about 6000 years. dinosaurs are how many years old? please do not pursue the idea that Adam walked with a Brontosaurus. 6000, all land animals were created on the sixth day. Whether or not Adam walked alongside them is irrelevant. Whether they lived at the same TIME is.

You missed the posts where he believes that we are now in the time known as the millennium. He does not believe that this is a future event, but a present one. I have heard this before also, but if that were the case..... IF WE ARE NOW IN THE MILLENNIUM, WHERE IS CHRIST????? mike On his throne in the New Jerusalem, which is currently in Heaven. He cannot return until the restoration of all things. (Acts 3) Just because his throne is not on earth doesn't mean He didn't reign. He exercised reign through the righteous. Nations were converted to Christ wholesale and evil was driven underground. It doesn't mean that there WAS no evil, merely that the evil was in check by the righteous. Also Scripture DOES teach that there will be a change from mortal to immortal, the definition of rapture. The question is not, will there be one, the real question is the TIMING. Since the metamorphosis is part and parcel of the resurrection, it must occur at the last day when Jesus it would.

#1 on the list should read Common sense

Whenever the word 'yom' is used in a context other than 24 hours, it seems to be qualified. Day of the LORD for example. People always trot out the verse about a one day is as a thousand years to the LORD, but that is so obviously Peter's way of teaching that time has no relevance to God, that I am surprised no one gets it. One more case of over-literalization by well-meaning Christians. It's an idiom and nothing more.

The earth was a raw canvas when created and worked on over a six day period. The earth was not created to REMAIN a waste. This is obvious by the context of both Genesis and Isaiah. Then its not earth....The earth was not the earth until it was created that way. Raw canvas...come on you got to give better than that. It's not? Eretz means earth in Hebrew. It was definitely earth. When an architect plans a building, he first draws the plans, then makes the ground ready for the finished product. So the earth was without form. The Spirit was hovering over the waters, doing the forming. The Father conceived the plans, the Word brought them to pass, the Spirit fleshed them out.

so you believe Adam walked with dinosaurs? If you mean did he have them as pets, LOL, probably not, but they were alive at the same point in time. Since fear was on all of the animals, they didn't disturb Adam or his descendants, but stayed away, allowing both men and dinos to fill the earth.

The earth was a raw canvas when created and worked on over a six day period. The earth was not created to REMAIN a waste. This is obvious by the context of both Genesis and Isaiah.

i believe in the gap theory and there are many little hints here and there that support it. however your point you just made is untrue. Dinosaurs and "beasts of the field" are not the same thing because according to Gen 1:30 the beasts (Gen 1:25) are vegetarians. Dinosaurs were herbivores, omnivores and carnivores. so where do you place meat eating dinosaurs (in time) if animals that roamed with Adam were vegetarians? you can't place them anywhere that's why the gap theory works. as i said, there are other little hints here and there. So what day were lions or tigers made? There were no carnivores until after the fall. All land animals including dinosaurs were made on the 6th day. you dismissed the gap theory so you have to SHOW ME how you explain meat eating dinosuar. you think they ate meat til after the fall? so you believe Adam walked around with a T-Rex? No, they were vegetarian BEFORE the fall, allowing Adam to have them about without becoming a snack. After the fall, it became different. After the flood, I figure they either died off in post flood conditions or roamed off to remote areas.

And what is this observation based on? The apparent lack of dinosaurs in the world today. Remember also that the fear of man is on most animals, so it IS entirely possible that the dinos went off to get away from men.

Your post #61, in this thread: Then in post #78, you say this to OneLight: Josephus's Antiquities is not divinely-inspired. David Chilton's book is not divinely inspired. They are both outside sources. I asked this a couple of times before, but notice that you didn't answer. Every one of the prophecies that have been fulfilled so far have been fulfilled literally in ways that were readily verifiable and visual. Whether those prophecies were in regards to Israel's Babylonian captivity, Jesus' birth, death, resurrection, etc. All those prophecies were fulfilled literally, to the very letter. So can you display some marker, some sign, some pointer, within scripture that, when it comes to the end times, God is suddenly going to begin fulfilling prophecies in ways that can't be seen or proven? The whole point of prophecy is to show that God is God, that he writes and enacts the history of mankind before it happens. The sovereignty of God can hardly be displayed by prophecy that is fulfilled in ways that cannot be seen and proven. Such as the fulfillment being metaphorical, spiritual, or occuring "in heaven." That defeats the purpose of prophecy. Two outside sources is not 'a lot' and they are theological/historical as opposed to using the newspaper and current events. The destruction of Jerusalem happened, did it not? Those were the days of vengeance. The beast was real, (Rome) the Gentiles trampled the city 42 months and the worst part of the siege was the time described in Revelation 9. John uses metaphoric language to describe the horrors. Demon inspired evil, perpetrated by Roman soldiers. Nero DID in fact persecute the Christian Church for 42 months. The early church called him the beast. His name adds up to 666. That name-numbering system was common at the time. It's called gematria. Nrwn Ksr=666 The mark of the beast was to burn a pinch of incense to the emperor in worship. The False Prophet was the Sanhedrin, the priests who had the authority to call down fire from heaven, but instead instructed the people to say "We have NO KING BUT CAESAR!" Nero did have an image made of himself. The woman with 12 stars was Faithful Israel. She delivered Christ (as Miryam, representing the whole of Faithful Israel), Satan did try to kill Christ when he was delivered. Faithful Israel was the Believers who heeded Jesus' warnings to get out of Jerusalem when they saw it surrounded by armies. They were kept safely at Pella for the length of the tribulation, 1260 days or three and half years, or if you prefer 42 months. As you can see, John describes things that DID happen in descriptive language from the Old Testament. This is a constant theme throughout Revelation. That doesn't really answer the question. You say we are in the Millennium now. How can you demonstrate that Satan is bound, because for us to be in the Millennium, Satan must be bound, so he cannot tempt the nations, and we must be living in a time of unparalleled peace. When did prophecy suddenly become filled figuratively? 1. I said we are PAST the millennium. The LORD ruled through his people for close to 2000 years, but this unparalleled evil we face today and the rise of militant Sodomites shows we are past the earthy rule. We are in the War of Gog and Magog, seeing the rise of the Man of Sin who believes himself God, Satanically inspired miracles like: Sex changes, test tube babies, embryonic stem cell research etc. 2. The rule of Christ was NOT a time of unparalleled peace. That comes from trying to force the prophecies of Isaiah 11 to fit Rev 20. The reign of Christ is a RULE WITH AN IRON ROD, not a time of peace. 3. The binding of Satan was specific. It was to keep the unbelieving Gentile nations in the world from being deceived when the gospel was given. 4. The prophecies WERE literal; figurative language is used to describe them in the Book of Revelation.

Thanks for your reply, and 'to reveal', or 'make known', is the same as the last book of scripture. It tells of the return in chapter 1 (of course) and verse 7 shows no rapture. Christ Himself teaches against this, just as in the O/T teachings. It's documented for us in Matthew 24.25-30 that there are no secrets, and we've been told of all things ((His word) when it's rightly divided), and in verses 40-46 Christ gives a example of one taken and one left while working, and the one left working is the one blessed. He teaches of no escape, no rapture. The time of salvation in the flesh is gone, it's judgment time (verse 51). The idea that the wicked are taken and the righteous are left is sort of contrary to what Paul wrote about the resurection of the saints. But, whatever... That's because the wicked being taken and the righteous left refers to 70 AD, not the 2nd coming. The taken go to the place where vultures go (see Rev 19 where the vultures and birds munch out on the bodies)

Died off in the post-flood conditions or went off to remote areas and still live.

The worst part is that the RCC has known of this for years, decades perhaps even centuries. That is why I said n another post that Pope Benedict needs to clean up the RCC before griping about *edit*.

Your post #61, in this thread: Then in post #78, you say this to OneLight: Josephus's Antiquities is not divinely-inspired. David Chilton's book is not divinely inspired. They are both outside sources. I asked this a couple of times before, but notice that you didn't answer. Every one of the prophecies that have been fulfilled so far have been fulfilled literally in ways that were readily verifiable and visual. Whether those prophecies were in regards to Israel's Babylonian captivity, Jesus' birth, death, resurrection, etc. All those prophecies were fulfilled literally, to the very letter. So can you display some marker, some sign, some pointer, within scripture that, when it comes to the end times, God is suddenly going to begin fulfilling prophecies in ways that can't be seen or proven? The whole point of prophecy is to show that God is God, that he writes and enacts the history of mankind before it happens. The sovereignty of God can hardly be displayed by prophecy that is fulfilled in ways that cannot be seen and proven. Such as the fulfillment being metaphorical, spiritual, or occuring "in heaven." That defeats the purpose of prophecy. Two outside sources is not 'a lot' and they are theological/historical as opposed to using the newspaper and current events. The destruction of Jerusalem happened, did it not? Those were the days of vengeance. The beast was real, (Rome) the Gentiles trampled the city 42 months and the worst part of the siege was the time described in Revelation 9. John uses metaphoric language to describe the horrors. Demon inspired evil, perpetrated by Roman soldiers. Nero DID in fact persecute the Christian Church for 42 months. The early church called him the beast. His name adds up to 666. That name-numbering system was common at the time. It's called gematria. Nrwn Ksr=666 The mark of the beast was to burn a pinch of incense to the emperor in worship. The False Prophet was the Sanhedrin, the priests who had the authority to call down fire from heaven, but instead instructed the people to say "We have NO KING BUT CAESAR!" Nero did have an image made of himself. The woman with 12 stars was Faithful Israel. She delivered Christ (as Miryam, representing the whole of Faithful Israel), Satan did try to kill Christ when he was delivered. Faithful Israel was the Believers who heeded Jesus' warnings to get out of Jerusalem when they saw it surrounded by armies. They were kept safely at Pella for the length of the tribulation, 1260 days or three and half years, or if you prefer 42 months. As you can see, John describes things that DID happen in descriptive language from the Old Testament. This is a constant theme throughout Revelation.

No...We tend to forget voting is a RIGHT. It is not mandated. If you choose to vote in all elections, one or none it is your right. You dont have to be involved in the political world. Not as an American. As a Christian however, we will be held responsible for not speaking out against evil. Societally, that means politics. Not every Believer is called to the political arena, but we are all called as Believers to take a stand.

So far. And we are NOT the majority anymore. Welcome to the War of Gog and Magog kiddies. Dig in. Word is we'll be surrounded eventually (Rev 20). When that happens, prepare for an emergency airlift. God's gonna use the Holy Fuel Air Explosive. (2 Peter 3, Rev 20)

You kinda missed some points in those two verses. JESUS defeats an army at HIS return, it doesn't say HE destroys everyone. It also says HE does so with the sword of HIS mouth, not fire. These verses do not talk about destroying with fire until after the millenium, which is when the judgement takes place, the wicked are cast into the lake of fire and the new Jerusalem comes down. Just as JESUS ascended in bodily form to be in heaven, we too will ascend in bodily form to be where HE is. We will return when the new Jerusalem descends at the end of 1,000 years. The Revelation 19 passage does say that Jesus defeats an army, but it's not what you think. That is a metaphor or Christ overthrowing Rome and all of the nations aligned with her. Daniel's Mountain in other words. The Kingdom of God defeated Rome, Rome broke into 10 toes and Christ overcame them. There is only one Second Coming, it's at the end of the Magog Rebellion, led by Satan-Gog. This is a time-line issue and nothing more. The thousand years is more properly rendered 'thousands of years'. Chilioi means a long period of indefinite time; chilios means 1000. That time has I believe also passed and the Magog Rebellion is currently going on.

I usually do my level best not to growl at people, Believers or otherwise. Most of the time, I express my aggravation alone. I have however (even here) given some folks both barrels on occasion. Even then, I try not to be mean. I live peaceably with all men, as much as it lies within me.

The problem seems to be here that people think God said ZAP! and stuff popped into place. The language indicates that the earth was created unfinished starting as void, but was brought into finished condition by the sixth day. Isaiah 45 Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else. The word 'yom' or day is used 1162 times in the Old Testament, the majority of the time referring to a 24 hour day. Dinosaurs (great lizards) are mentioned in Job, called Leviathan. None specific are mentioned. At the flood, baby dinos were loaded aboard the ark. They died off in the post-flood conditions from what can be figured out. Apparently they needed certain nutrients no longer available in post-flood times, contracted organic diseases, or were unable to mate for whatever reason. It's also possible that they adapted to new conditions and no longer exist in their pre-flood form. Scientists keep finding what they think are new species in remote places. There may still be dinos out there, away from men, living and breeding. To me, that makes them smarter than we think.

I'm pretty easy going most of the time, but some things get under my skin. Unbelievers who insult God. Pseudo-believers who espouse heresy. Believers who fall for things that are obvious as the nose on one's face. I try not to get too fired up, but sometimes....grrr, argh.

No it is not true that Jesus' feet will not hit the ground, we meet Jesus in the air as He is returning to earth and then come with Him to the earth to reign with Him as kings and priest for the 1,000 years Millennial reign. And no there will be no space crafts involved. The Lord's feet will not hit the ground when He returns , believers will meet him in the air then after the tribulation He comes back for the 1,000 year reign. There is only one return of Christ. You are right we do meet Him in the air but we do not go to Heaven at this time, we meet the Lord in the air as He is coming to earth we meet him and continue with Him as He descends to earth. funny, i have never read this, about making a loopty loop in the air. when do the wedding garments come into play? where do we get our new cloths? when do we get our steeds? just askin..... mike The Bible never say that we ever go to heaven after the rapture nor does it say that Jesus meets us half way and then returns Himself to Heaven. What the Bible does say is that Jesus is coming to earth, that we will meet Him in the air, and that we will reign with Him here on earth during the Millennium. So put it together it doesn't take a rocket scientist. Wrong! You forgot to mention the wedding supper which takes place in HEAVEN. You also forgot to mention the multitute which no man can count that will be standing before the throne of God. That also is in HEAVEN. Somebody is missing a few of their rockets. It was North Korea. Iran found them. NOT good.

The best total picture of things is in Revelation 20 & 21. In Ch 20 the Church is resurrected/translated when the fire from heaven falls. All of the Magogites are killed in the event, then the dead (unbelievers--we are NOT dead, we are asleep) are brought back to life (not resurrected, the words are different) and Satan is judged and cast into the Lake of Fire. Then the dead are judged according to their works and condemned. When this is over, THEN the Holy City comes down. The Holy City is obviously the Church, she is a bride adorned for her husband, which Paul calls us elsewhere in Scripture. We have been observing the proceedings (and probably doing the Snoopy dance when Satan gets cast into the Lake of Fire, LOL) from the air. Once all of the wicked have been judged, THEN we come to the New Earth. The Church is never spoken of as 'going to heaven' but the state of things will be OF heaven (Holy), and the New Earth paradise-like (Edenic). There is nothing in Scripture one way or the other which speaks of whether we will have access to the Third heaven, the dwellingplace of God, but since we are His children, I see no reason we wouldn't. Deceased believer's spirits at this present time are with Christ in heaven at the right hand of God. Man, however, was not meant to dwell in the heavens but on the earth. We have bodies and will have bodies in the future specifically for existence in this plane. what the capabilities of those bodies will be, only God knows.

No it is not true that Jesus' feet will not hit the ground, we meet Jesus in the air as He is returning to earth and then come with Him to the earth to reign with Him as kings and priest for the 1,000 years Millennial reign. And no there will be no space crafts involved. The Lord's feet will not hit the ground when He returns , believers will meet him in the air then after the tribulation He comes back for the 1,000 year reign. The LORD will be sending down fire from heaven, Dead Believers will gain their resurrected bodies, Live Believers will change in an instant as well.

Mark 12 29 Jesus answered him,