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Sorry Smalcald on re reading your post i see i did not address your reply. I agree with your question Why are they not involving the church ? but in many cases they are but like me they do not get sound counsel. I am sure if we honestly go to God with our agenda`s layed down, and our will 100 % submitted to His, we will recieve peace to do the right thing. I am only trying to stop further heartache and dishonour to God, by showing where the church is erring. I stop short of any direct instruction as to the course anyone should take if they see they have erred. After this they are able to seek the Lord for His instruction to them. Blessings.

Please bear with me at the risk of sounding over bearing, but i wish to submit one last entry on this topic. The only reason there appears to be grounds for divorce/remarriage is because some bible versions have translated `PORNEA`(fornication) to include Adultery, but my warning to my brothers and sisters is check this out as it is not correct. This is the reason for the confusion and different teachings in the body of Christ. Ask yourself why Mathew gives an exception and that being (pre marital unfaithfulness,which is deception and or betrayal before marriage) but Mark and Luke do not. Again it is clear that we who as Christians are forgiven all our sins, must forgive all others or find ourselves in hell. A christian who cannot forgive their spouse for Adultery has hardened their heart. Jesus clearly teaches marriage is for life no exceptions and that Moses gave this allowance because of hardened hearts. It may be nescessary to seperate from some marriages i.e Abusiveness, Sexual Immorality and if the unbeliever departs, but this does not show grounds for divorce and remarriage, but rather we are to pray all the more for their salvation.They are being lost in hell forever, can we say i will not forgive them? Nothing is immpossible for our God and anything short of this is, is an unbelieving hardness of heart called unforgiveness. Duet 24 has been misunderstood also and does not mean a Christian cannot go back to their spouse after remarriage. The reason this divorce/remarriage in Duet was an abomination is that the woman divorced was guilty of premarital sex before the marriage, "if he find some UNCLEAN thing in her". Again it is only saying that the divorce happened, not that it was Gods intention. Every divorce is a hardness of heart, and the Jews did not have the gospel/light. They did not have the Holy Spirit living in them to empower them to forgive and obey. Brothers and Sisters this is why the Gospel is Good News. The unbeliever is living under the law with no help from the Holy Spirit. I myself was blind to this for many years since my divorce, and had begun to think the gospel was bad news as i would not forgive and could not get victory over my own sins, but now i know i have the help of God himself living in me!!, all praise to Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour!!!

Im not sure how to post quotes, so ill try to reply here to the last 5 post together. 1) Smalcald re remarriaged for 20 yrs ex has malso remarried. Firstly that person would know if they had Gods peace about staying in their second marriage and do nothing unless led by God. Second is we are not considering my doctrine, but seeing if God does or does not allow remarriage, IF he does not then it is not a question of our comfort but our salvation, for the Bible clearly says no Adulterer will enter into heaven. So the real question is does Jesus allow divorce, and this hinges on wether the word Pornea? means both pre marital sex and Adultery? For the only exception for divorce Math 19:9 is the word Poernea which is only ever correctly translated as fornication. The problem we face is that many translations now translate Pornea as Sexual immorality or Adultery.But the truth is that it is only correct to translate it as Fornication. If Adultery/sexual immorality = Fornication why then are both words used side by side if they mean the same, this is a nonsense. 2) JIllAROO and Butero i cant do justice to this subject as i am only trying to repeat what i learnt from respected teachers Dr Mike Gorrie and Dr Jim Birkitt. The gist being that due to the above changes in modern translations we now have Adultery and Sexual Immmorality as grounds for divorce, but the only grounds untill about the 1900`s was fornication(pre marital sex) by an engaged persons fiancee. 3) KC02 not sure who you were talking to, but Ezk 3:18 leaves me no option if i think a brother or the church has been overtaken by a sin. But please note i am not advocating anyone make any moves upon my words unless God shows them to, also i have pointed all in my other post to much more indepth study and exposition by men far more accountable and qualified than I. Lastly all, please keep your hats on, im not demanding anyone do anything. I have offered my testimony of 18 yrs of confusion due to divorce and the light that has dawned since i found my error. Please look back at my other post and see that i am invested heavily in needing the truth of this matter also. A web search of Spirit of Hosea also gives testimonies of many others, including a very sincere preacher who went before God for 2 yrs over his remarriage and was shown in dreams many warnings untill he knew his only course was to seperate. I only wish to save others heartache and confusion, but if im wrong my conscience very clear at this moment. In Christ Arthur.

Hi i had acohol/anger problem for 12 yrs before recieving Christ, i was immediatley delivered of both, but 18 yrs on i have found things coming back stronger than i could resist. I remained in fellowship and for the most part was outwardly restrained and serving God and others. Inwardly i knew my life was hypocritical and i could no longer evangelise the lost as i could not in good conscience lead others to the life i was living. To make things worse i could see none of my peers who were living victorious either. At times I began to despair that i was ever saved, but i continued to have enough moments of seeming breakthrough to perservere. I was living the carnal experience of Romans 7, but knew this was not the experience of breakthrough that Finney, Wesley, Wigglesworth and many others testified to. My instructors and peers in the faith could shed no light, and advised prayer and bible reading (in other words "trying harder"). In my desperation i began to cry out to God to save me. What eventuated shortly after was, i came accross a Victory Over Sin teacher by the name of Rev Earnest O Neil on the web. Essentially he was saying what i saw the Apostle Paul in Rom 8 and the revival greats saying, that God can and will sanctify/purify/remove all sin, us completley in an instant, but he was saying it in a way that i finally got it. I must state here that i have not recieved this experience yet. What i am saying is that i no longer try to supress/push down/overcome my sinful tendencies as i see now that Jesus living in me wants to give me a new heart and not just leave me to patch up the old one. Oh happy day when i heard God call me "a white washed tombstone" and i stopped trying to deny it. "If we claim to see, we are blind", but if we admit our heart is full of dead mens bones ( anger, slander and judging etc etc), and that it is as the bible says " wicked beyond repair, then he can heal us. Finney states that God has spared man the sight of the naked human heart, of which NO man can look upon and live. selah My point is that those who get free instantly have let God do the work, and those who struggled and struggled were trying to change their own heart. This may be hard to accept for the strugglers, but i struggled for 18 yrs and like quick sand i just sank deeper. Im not trying to bring condemnation on anyone but freedom and liberty as promised in the bible everywhere. Not a patch up job or a try harder pill but the good news that Christ Himself living in us will when we are ready nail that rotting corpse, that old man, to the cross and raise us up as a new man. Please dont get me wrong, yes it has already been done "it is finished", but some of us just want to struggle abit more before we believe and yeild to the oprating table of the Holy Spirit.

Yes God will and does supply the grace we need for every circumstance, even celibacy if we find ourselves in the divorce/remarriage trap. Again i must emphasize seek God on every matter and do not choose celibacy unless specifically led to. This is the problem when men/women who try to live a celibate life when God has said "go forth and multiply" they are unable to control themselves. Celibacy is grace empowered and not the normal way, most famous preachers and revivalist married and even remarried upon the death of their wife/hushand. God is not the author of confusion, but oh man the confusion i went through trying to fit square pegs in round holes untill God shone His light on my error and the error of divorce and remarriage. I have 2 siblings and 1 friend who were divorced and then remarried and even though i gave them my blessings, i could not bring myself to attend their weddings. I see now that the Holy Spirit within me was grieved and although i tried to supress my feelings, i had no relief until the next day. I wish i did not have to be the one to now tell them they are committing adultery in Gods sight, but i know of no other way for me. Ezek 3:18-21.

Everything by Finney is challenging and worth it. I think. Systematic theology ( systematic, brief as possible, saturated with proof and only one volume.) Sanctification and 54 relations of Christ to Christians. Many other easy read republished books are now available. Lately i read Heaven is Real by Don Piper who was dead for 90 minutes after horrific accident, he still bares the pain and scarring but is used by God to encourage many. If you want a glimpse of the horrors of hell and splendors of heaven, Visions of Heaven and Hell by John Bunnyan is a must. ( caution you will be stirred uncomfortably.)

Yes that is my interpretation ( i am not a recognised teacher but have gleaned this from serveral others that are/were). I now believe that God counts all first marriages only as joined by Him unless and untill death. It matters not what i believe though, its what God who does not contradict Himself says in the Bible and through His Son. Jesus said " it has been said ( Moses said such and such, or atleast people claim such and such is allowed )" " But im saying WHOEVER divorces....commits Adultery" For years i tried to harmonise what others taught, with this very clear and staight forward command of Jesus Himself, but i could never get any peace.

Hi Kross and Smalcald i am a christian man, who married a divorced woman before i knew Jesus or the bible. 6 mths before recieving Christ i found myself seperated and tormented by the infidelities on both sides. For 4 yrs i tried to do what i thought was the right thing, and win my wife back. All the counsel i recieved from pastors and leaders was varied and vague. None told me i should not try to save my marriage. After 4 yrs i did, i thought follow scripture and divorced amicably for the sake of peace. 18 yrs later while crying out to God for clarity about possible remarrriage to a lady that i had a 5 yr relationship with but could get no peace about, i came accross the above teaching by Dr Tim Birkitt and Dr Mike Gorrie that the word for fornication (premarital sex) is in every instance Porenea and is the word used as the only reason for divorce not sexual immorality or adultery-Mochiahia ? as some bibles use. It has therefore been mistranslated in many bibles and appears to sanction divorce/remarriage for the cause of adultery, but this is wrong and the only execption is divorce because of fornication committed by ones fiancee during the engagement period, and this was only written in Matthew for the Jews who had this custom of calling the espoused, husband and wife before the actual marriage ceremony. This is why Mark and Luke written to the Greeks do not have this exception. If you can recieve this then it is not bondage to repent of all wrong marriages but liberty from sin which always misses Gods best and causes more problems than it appears to solve. It is a very hard thing to accept especially where children are now involved, and each person should not make a move without clear and unwavering direction from God. Do not add doubt to the situation as this doubt is unbelief and a sin. . Finally my brothers and sisters know this, there is NOTHING OUR GOD cannot REDEEM. He always rewards obedience with blessing far greater than we can ask for or imagine. Our God is a expansive giving God, not a restrictive denying god as mens idols are. Im sorry but if you believe God will overlook the breaking of any marriage, Christian or Pre-Christian there is no biblical grounds, and dealing "treacherously with the wife of your youth" will cause your prayers to go unanswered. John the Baptist lost his head for telling pagan Herod he must leave his brother Phillips wife and return to his. I cant supply all the answers here and others have already supplied excellent responses to every objection, i recommend doing a web search especially " Spirit of Hosea". God bless Arthur

For a very thorough and biblical answer to the question of divorce and remarriage, google Interview dr mike gorrie and dr jim birkitt or high calling ministries auckland New Zealand, they got the low down on it all.