AnotherTraveler

*GASP!* No! yup What is striking to me is that we all have the same Bible, but most of us here can't seem to agree on what it says. There are many reasons for so many views, however, some of the worst reasons are doctrines of demons. If a demon promotes a doctrine, there is a PURPOSE behind the doctrine. If, for example, there is no loss or discipline involved for disobeying God, the fear of the Lord disappears from the mind of the "believer" and the restraint to keep from sinning leaves with it. This is the result of the once saved always saved doctrine. If prophecy can be spoken and yet not come to pass, yet there is no refuting or acknowledging even of the failure, then the word of prophecy listed in the gifts of the Spirit becomes a pathetic joke and hinders many from even seriously considering Christianity. If we will spend endless energies agruing about the nature of God, we miss the purpose of God, to save the lost. The devil ultimately wants us doing anything that is not the will of God, and he isn't fussy. If God wants you to visit the hospital, and the devil can somehow get you to go to the grocery store instead, that works for him. The grocery store isn't evil, but being there when a person at the hospital might be ready to come to Christ if you are there to provide a loving witness, well, the point is made. We always have the devil resisting us if we are trying to do good, but we actually formulate doctrines sometimes that are so preventive that the devil can leave and we are still impeeded by the doctrine we have created. There are churches that don't allow musical instruments because they have a doctrine, that refuse to baptize because they have a doctrine, that refuse to use the name of Jesus because they have a doctrine, that disallow any speakers that are not a card carrying member (if Jesus showed up, He would not be allowed to speak in the church He shed His blood for) because they have a POLICY that acts as a doctrine. There are churches that dictate your hairstyle, clothing, modern tools, electronics, and so very much more, all because they have a doctrine, a policy, a standard, something, anything that prevents, hinders, grieves, and eventually quenches the Holy Ghost from His works of leading, guiding, teaching, empowering, annointing, ect. This place should be renmaned Mar's Hill.

*GASP!* No! yup

I find it interesting that much of the discussions here on Worthy are only discussions. If you have ever tried to get someone here to actually "do" anything, and I mean anything, you might discover some practical atheists here also.

The Dome of the Rock is an abomination that makes desolate maybe?

Your story is fine, but it does not address the hundreds of thousands of meer mortals that were not perfect. You condemn dating, yet you dated, according to your story. I like a conservative approach, however, the method is not the problem, the problem is the grace to stand and the weakness of humans. The problem is sin. Many a brand new believer has already had a first kiss and dated, and more. Trusting in the Word of God, seaking Him, and obeying Him are the correct procedures to success in any area, He will direct you.

wow Israel is Israel. The tree is not it's shadow, but the shadow is of the tree. There is a nation called Israel today, the decendents are of the nation of Israel of old. Israel is Israel. We are a NEW CREATION. We are children of promise through faith in Jesus Christ. We come from all nations of the earth. I come from the USA, yet the USA is still the USA, with or without me. You can be of Israel and be saved, you can be of Israel and be lost. Same with all nations on the earth. Yet God has spoken of Israel in the future sense, He said he would call them from all nations in the earth back to the promised land. That was formalized in 1948, and Israel once again became a nation. God is still speaking of Israel in other things in the future. Still, they are a living shadow of the church that is also called from all nations of the earth to be saved. There is a difference between the tree and the shadow of the tree. The bible uses every form of language expression style available. Some things are parable, some are symbolic..... However, God never pretends that the real. natural world is not occuring in the moment, and Israel is REAL, does exist, and is in the right place, of the right people, and does inherit the promises that God has spoken of and to them. There will be a real war and a real valley of Armegedo will really be filled with the dead from the warfare.

Israel is Israel.

I have taken several courses offered by WOF brethren, and the initial skew is hard to detect at first, but there is a danger of presenting great truth in a false setting, turning truth into a lie. We probably all agree that Paul was pretty spiritual and not behind on God's message, right? Paul healed many people, BUT NOT ALL. Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick. 2 Tim 4:20 (KJV) Now, if God's will was for all to be healed, then Paul missed it here, right? WRONG Sometimes God has His own motives for who He chooses to heal, and when, and even if. Some sickness are unto death. When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby. John 11:4 (KJV) Could you imagine being there, hearing Jesus say these words, and then walking with him to the TOMB of the man that had just died of this sickness that Jesus said was not unto death? What happened to me,,, Years ago I had severe poison ivy rash covering my face, swelling my head, swelling my eyes into slits. I have seen God heal many, I have myself been healed in times past, I know God does heal, and I am so very miserable, begging to be healed. At the same time, I couldn't work because of this rash, so our finances suffered greatly also. I pleaded with God to heal me, but He left me in misery, so I wandered to the roadside where a man was selling shoes out of a trailer, and we started talking, he started weeping and repenting, saying he was called to be a prayer intercessor, and had backslid into sin, but God restored him there on the roadside. Fine, I was happy for him, but still very miserable in my suffering. He would leave there and drive back to his home state, and God pressed on him to pray for my family, for my sons specifically, and he told me of it on the phone the next week. At the EXACT moment of his praying, my sons were sliding out of control in a pickup with a filled water tank in the back, down a mountainside into a huge tree, smashing the pickuip, and the water tank slid forward crushing the cab. It looked like no one could have survived. My son Isaac had the dash against his chest and the back of the pickup cab against his back, and was in the middle seat unhurt, but an inch or two would have been death by crushing. My point? If God had healed me when I wanted, I would have returned to work, not meeting this backslid prayer warrior brother, he would have continued on his way, and by his not being restored, would not have prayed for my sons, and I would have a boy to bury instead of rejoicing at the great lesson that God KNOWS exactly what He is doing, when to do it, and when to not do it, and His perfect will is not so easy to put into a formula and duplicate over and over, but rather we are to trust Him even when we don't understand what is going on.

The reports in the news have been tragic, and I don't for a minute trust the news as complete truth. Whatever sin he might have sinned, he should be surrounded by those that ministered with him on the way up to the high place he fell from. Where are his fellows??? To abandon him and his family to become outcasts wandering without hope is not the call of God to us. By all means speak the truth IN LOVE. If your brother sins, rebuke him, if he repents, FORGIVE HIM. Moses interceeded for the people as they were rebelling against him, where is the intercession for this man and his family? I am not so concerned with what this says about Ted Haggerd as what it says about the condition of the church in general. We have become vicious in attacking the ones among us that fail, that sin, that get confused, that get overwhelmed, where is the mercy that was shown to us all? We who all deserve hell fire but were spared by God's mercy and grace, are we offering mercy to the ones from among us that have sinned? Exhaulting leaders to high positions is unscriptural, yet we do it all the time. Something in us wants to make a person out to be greater than they really are, and when they fail that illusion (and it is an illusion), we turn on them and hatefully destroy them with all our power, and should we not be able to reach them in the natural, we speak against them in slanders and gossips, not knowing that we are sinning in doing so, somehow washing ourselves of any responsibility for our own words. I am not saying condone sin. However, I have worked for years in the rescue missions and seen many a minister fall into sin and find little or no help from his "brethren" that formerly professed great love for him. Is our love so fickle that we have no time or energy to weep with those that weep? Ted's wife, Ted's children, what did they do? Why are they not assisted and encouraged and strengthened and supported? I don't advocate restoring Ted to high position, but then I don't advocate putting ANYONE into these false towers of man worship and ego, for from there the only direction is downward.

Paul is speaking about trusting God's commands. Word of Faith churches presume to teach us how to command God. Anyone that approaches God in arrogance is being highly foolish, and I agree that Yod has nailed the issue I have the greatest problem with concerning WOF, should we presume to command or demand of God, we have become Lords, not servants. This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 2 Tim 3:1-9 (KJV)

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Tim 4:1-4 (KJV) We live in the era of the church menu and all you can eat buffet. The teachers that have been heaped are the result of the lustful demands of those with itching ears. Careful that you are not also "pick and choosing" from the bible, as it is to be believed entirely.

Israel is the principle nation, and Jerusalem is the city above all cities, certainly. While I understand your crude response, and I believe Israel certainly needs to make decisions for Israel alone, evil communications corrupt good manners. Your response was inappropriate, even if I agree that Israel should make her own decisions.

He says that like it is bad thing. The best thing that could happen to Israel is to get away from US foreign aid. Corrupt Israeli politicians would not feel beholden to the US and Israel could eradicate Hamas and the PA like they should have done years ago. Israel should tell Mitchell up which dark warm orifice he can shove his threats. How Christlike of a response! NOT

No. Babylon falling was the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Apostate Israel became like Babylon because she whored after Babylon and all of the Kings of the Earth. God destroyed apostate Israel for its rejection of Messiah and brought His Body into pre-eminence and rule. Both New Jerusalem and Great Babylon are cities IN THE SPIRITUAL REALM (as in not physical world places) So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Rev 17:3-5 (KJV) And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. Rev 17:18 (KJV) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Rev 3:12 (KJV) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:2 (KJV)

There is something for all of us to do in service to the Lord, and the scripture is clear that the bride makes herself ready. The question is, what does the bride do to make herself ready? This parable is about the bridegroom and the ten virgins, the setting appears to be clearly the preview of the marriage supper of the Lamb. Why not discuss what this could mean instead of making declarations of what it does not mean, or suggesting ego is involved whenever someone introduces a concept that is not clearly seen, agreed upon, or understood? Discussions are discussions, not of personalities, but of words and thoughts.

Jamaica's Prime Minister asks for prayer for Jamaica... http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/PM-wan...7--2010_7308088 This guy is a leader! When was the last time OUR LEADERS in the USA asked for prayer so openly and sincerely? Please pray for Jamaica.

The ten virgins are all virgins, and asleep, but five were wise and brought oil with them. Now when every maid's turn was come to go in to king Ahasuerus, after that she had been twelve months, according to the manner of the women, (for so were the days of their purifications accomplished, to wit, six months with oil of myrrh, and six months with sweet odours, and with other things for the purifying of the women;) Esth 2:12 (KJV) The oil has to do with purifications in preparation of becoming the bride of Christ, the Lamb's wife. 5 wise virgins are investing their efforts in purification to become the Lamb's wife. 5 foolish virgins are not doing so. As the hour gets late, both fall asleep. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Rev 19:7-10 (KJV) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. Rev 11:3-4 (KJV) Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. Zech 4:11-14 (KJV) Perhaps the worst judgement that falls on Babylon the Great is the loss of the voice of the bridegroom and the bride. And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Rev 18:23-24 (KJV) There comes a place where the Spirit and the bride say the same thing! And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Rev 22:17 (KJV)

Far be it from me to defend Todd Bentley. No, I don't want to see a video of him. And I also agree that Jesus did neither of those things. When repentance, the cross, and the other vital truth are not ministered, certainly the influence of the devil is there. The bible says to let all things be done decently and in order. I am not advocating evil behaviour at all, just pointing out that discerning is a gift that you were thankful for, but your discriptions were not of that gift, in my experience. I meant no offense.

I have that gift, not that I have ever said to anyone,"I have the gift of tongues interpretation." All the spiritual gifts are more visible in a deeply praying group that has been taught to covet earnestly the best gifts. As with believing anything, practicing anything, except someone teaches and encourages in any area, the willing soul cannot believe what he is unaware of.

To think someone is demon possessed is not discerning of spirits, it is thinking. To discuss with someone is not discerning of spirits, it is counciling. To believe that everyone is giving you dirty looks is not discerning of spirits, and it might be paranoid. My father recently passed away having had parkenson's disease, and constant movement is a major symptom of that disease. There are many medical conditions that cause constant movement, and demon's likely have nothing to do with the symptoms. Todd's bizarre methods are certainly not the way I understand the move of God to be, and if you were in one of his meetings, I also would have been uncomfortable, as I am sure you were. However, you don't say that you were in one of his meetings, though you go right to into using him as an example, were you blending this meeting together with Todd's by way of example? There are certainly demons, and they probably come to church as faithfully as most Christians, but we often miss discerning of the ones that are hateful, or prideful, or rebellious, or greedy, yet such might be sitting next to you in church, completely non-discerned. Yet there are certainly bizarre manifestations that are so obviously of the devil that a blind man can "see" the evil involved. My concern it that there are true manifestations of God, such as speaking in tongues, that are real, and are of God, and it is easy to lump the good of God into the evil of demons in a single sentence. There was a man that went out into the desert to be tempted of the devil. (sounds evil) He was driven of the Holy Ghost to go into the desert to be tempted of the devil. (sounds bizarre) His name was Jesus.

Rush's lifestyle (smoking cigars, drug addiction, ect) can be extremely hard on the heart, and even when one quits doing that, there can still be a lot of damage remaining from having done those things in the past. He has lost a lot of weight recently, I believe I heard, and that helps to reduce the strain on the heart as well. I also am praying for him to recover.

I hope the mother and child flee to a free country that has righteousness involved in judgement. Joseph and Mary FLED from the civil authority of their day into Egypt at the Lord's direction to save the life of Jesus as a newborn.

This is in the main news, I found it on FoxNews. These folks are believers and it is being called a Christmas miracle. I don't really know how to add the link to it, guess it must be Googled.

I know of a pastor that told of a full year when he couldn't "feel" the Lord's presence, not in prayer, worship, nor studying the Word. For him it was a time of great growth in trusting beyond feelings, and in the end of the experience, his ability to "feel" the Lord's presence returned as before. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: Acts 17:27 (KJV)