OneAccord

Dave 123 Our military seems to be having trouble making the distinction also. Steff Good statement, Steff.

Thanks, Reverand Turmoil, for responding to that statement. I, too, was a bit taken aback by it. I guess Christians will try to get persecuted any way they can. I actually thought it was the other way around, that the so-called "liberal" Christians are being and will continue to be persecuted by the right-wing Christians, who will be thinking they are doing God a favor. Meanwhile, about One World Religion, I agree that it is nowhere to be found in the Bible as a condition in the rising of the anti-Christ. On the contrary, Jesus prayed that we would all have unity and be as one, even as He and His Father are one. I find it interesting that Christians are so suspicious of any moves toward a united faith as anit-christ, thus in a way endorsing or feeling safer with the segregation and denominationalism that abounds in the church today.

Thank you, Kuada, for a wonderful, heartfelt post. Welcome to Worthy Boards, where as you can see your view will not be very welcome. Some of us, however, agree with you all the way!!!! As for myself, I could not in good conscience vote for either party in this election. I don't believe that one moral issue supercedes another. I pray you continue to have an open heart, that it may abound and overflow with the agape love that Jesus desires in us, and that you may find some work of faith that will allow you to serve the poor, the widow, the fatherless and the stranger, a most high calling. Be at peace with all men. A sister pilgrim, Rose

Beautiful post, Bud, thank you for a voice of compassion and Christian love. We need more lights like you shining in the darkness of this present age.

Sorry, I just don't see One World Religion and One World Government in those verses. I do see a rising antichrist/man or perdition but I think I need more help.

Can someone please show me where the One World Religion (and government for that matter) that is part of the rise of the anti-christ are in the Bible? I need some scripture on these and haven't found any on my own. Thanks.

I fixed the Riverbend Blog link above. Here it is again if anyone is still interested: http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

hmh These kinds of comments from folks calling themselves Christians are disturbing, to say the least. What do you think it means to be a light to the world, nuclear fusion? Don't you realize there are people in those countries? And some of them might even be Christians, and all of them are made in the image of God. This is a terrible witness to unbelievers and one of the big reasons they want nothing to do with the church. It desecrates the name of Jesus, and you will be brought to account: Matthew 12:34-37 For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

The problem is that we aren't seeing these kinds of miraculous deliverances in the church today, at least they are rare rather than common, so people tend to resort to drugs and therapy even when they already know Jesus. I believe 100% based on scripture that illness and affliction, both physical and mental are demonic in origin. Unfortunately I don't see the signs and wonders we're supposed to be able to perform in action. Don't know what's up with that.

Especially if you only listen to the voices of the Iraqi people that agree with you. Propaganda wars.

dvolach: Great article, I read the whole thing. Am presently also reading a book written by a pastor at the onset of World War II who lived in England and was wrestling terribly with the role of a Christian in wartime. His conclusion was that it was a totally unfair decision to have to make and that each one would have to come to terms with it in his own heart. He admiored both the staunch pacifists of his day as well as the nobility of the soliders who took on Hitler's regime. This is a very interesting quote from the article you presented: I don't understand what the guy means here, because this is certainly not the prevailing attitude in the church today. Augustine's rules for a just war are quite succint, and I'm sure the dialog in his day must have been quite interesting, I would have love to have been a fly on the wall for that discourse: 1. JUST WAR can only be waged by legitimate authorities. 2. JUST WAR must exhaust all non-violent options first. 3. JUST WAR must have a reasonable chance to succeed. 4. JUST WAR must be fought with right intentions. 5. JUST WAR must discriminate between combative enemies and non-combative civilians (Death of civilians is considered justifiable only if unavoidable). 6. JUST WAR's ultimate goal should be to re-establish peace. In light of these 'rules', I am not convinced that our mission in Iraq is justified, particular in regard to rule #2. As for the submitting to Hitler's government if you are a good Romans 13 Christian, then absolutely you should submit. The same doctrines that are being espoused in regards to our submission to Bush & government would have to apply across the board, even to those Iraqi Christians who should have been graciously submitting to their leader Saddam Hussein. After all, God raised him up, too, for His purposes and intents. As for you, Shiloh 357: Mercy triumphs over justice: Oooops!!! Misquote, you busted me! Good eye! The verse is James 2:13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. It still applies in the context of my post, however. Thanks for correcting me! I will never misquote that verse again (one of my favorites, by the way!)

I also have a concern that this board resorts to censorship as a means of witnessing. I have encountered this many times, and have even been deleted for posting about censorship. What's up with this?

Confessing Christ in a World of Violence Our world is wracked with violence and war. But Jesus said: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God" (Matt. 5:9). Innocent people, at home and abroad, are increasingly threatened by terrorist attacks. But Jesus said: "Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you" (Matt. 5:44). These words, which have never been easy, seem all the more difficult today. Nevertheless, a time comes when silence is betrayal. How many churches have heard sermons on these texts since the terrorist atrocities of September 11? Where is the serious debate about what it means to confess Christ in a world of violence? Does Christian "realism" mean resigning ourselves to an endless future of "pre-emptive wars"? Does it mean turning a blind eye to torture and massive civilian casualties? Does it mean acting out of fear and resentment rather than intelligence and restraint? Faithfully confessing Christ is the church's task, and never more so than when its confession is co-opted by militarism and nationalism. - A "theology of war," emanating from the highest circles of American government, is seeping into our churches as well. - The language of "righteous empire" is employed with growing frequency. - The roles of God, church, and nation are confused by talk of an American "mission" and "divine appointment" to "rid the world of evil." The security issues before our nation allow no easy solutions. No one has a monopoly on the truth. But a policy that rejects the wisdom of international consultation should not be baptized by religiosity. The danger today is political idolatry exacerbated by the politics of fear. In this time of crisis, we need a new confession of Christ. 1. Jesus Christ, as attested in Holy Scripture, knows no national boundaries. Those who confess his name are found throughout the earth. Our allegiance to Christ takes priority over national identity. Whenever Christianity compromises with empire, the gospel of Christ is discredited. We reject the false teaching that any nation-state can ever be described with the words, "the light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it." These words, used in scripture, apply only to Christ. No political or religious leader has the right to twist them in the service of war. 2. Christ commits Christians to a strong presumption against war. The wanton destructiveness of modern warfare strengthens this obligation. Standing in the shadow of the Cross, Christians have a responsibility to count the cost, speak out for the victims, and explore every alternative before a nation goes to war. We are committed to international cooperation rather than unilateral policies. We reject the false teaching that a war on terrorism takes precedence over ethical and legal norms. Some things ought never be done - torture, the deliberate bombing of civilians, the use of indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction - regardless of the consequences. 3. Christ commands us to see not only the splinter in our adversary's eye, but also the beam in our own. The distinction between good and evil does not run between one nation and another, or one group and another. It runs straight through every human heart. We reject the false teaching that America is a "Christian nation," representing only virtue, while its adversaries are nothing but vicious. We reject the belief that America has nothing to repent of, even as we reject that it represents most of the world's evil. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23). 4. Christ shows us that enemy-love is the heart of the gospel. While we were yet enemies, Christ died for us (Rom. 5:8, 10). We are to show love to our enemies even as we believe God in Christ has shown love to us and the whole world. Enemy-love does not mean capitulating to hostile agendas or domination. It does mean refusing to demonize any human being created in God's image. We reject the false teaching that any human being can be defined as outside the law's protection. We reject the demonization of perceived enemies, which only paves the way to abuse; and we reject the mistreatment of prisoners, regardless of supposed benefits to their captors. 5. Christ teaches us that humility is the virtue befitting forgiven sinners. It tempers all political disagreements, and it allows that our own political perceptions, in a complex world, may be wrong. We reject the false teaching that those who are not for the United States politically are against it or that those who fundamentally question American policies must be with the "evil-doers." Such crude distinctions, especially when used by Christians, are expressions of the Manichaean heresy, in which the world is divided into forces of absolute good and absolute evil. The Lord Jesus Christ is either authoritative for Christians, or he is not. His Lordship cannot be set aside by any earthly power. His words may not be distorted for propagandistic purposes. No nation-state may usurp the place of God. We believe that acknowledging these truths is indispensable for followers of Christ. We urge them to remember these principles in making their decisions as citizens. Peacemaking is central to our vocation in a troubled world where Christ is Lord. http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=actio...fession_signers

I think this is a valid question and this brother deserves an answer. I, too, ask myself that question, because indeed our God is a merciful God and His mercy endureth forever. I found an interesting verse the other day in the Book of Acts: Acts 10:34,35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

What if we get nuked, how should we respond? We should bow down to our mighty God and say "Though you slay me, yet I will trust in you." Job 2:10 What? Shall we recieve good at the hand of God, and not recieve evil?

However, there are some of us who are followers of Christ that believe that He meant exactly what He said when He commanded us to resist not an evil person, to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies and to bless those who persecute you. These are very hard sayings, and many Christians show a lack of faith and trust in their God to guard them and keep them when they walk in complete obedience to these His commandments. Love conquers all. Mercy triumphs over justice.

That's only if you are selective about which weblogs you read: Here's a very intersting weblog being written by an Ameriucan journalist who is inside Baghdad, he arrived November 5 and has been logging his experiences there almost daily since then: http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/ Here also is another weblog, the voice of a woman inside Baghdad: http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

Here's a very intersting weblog being written by an Ameriucan journalist who is inside Baghdad, he arrived November 5 and has been logging his experiences there almost daily since then: http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/ Here also is another weblog, the voice of a woman inside Baghdad: http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2004_11_...003558181121517

It seems that we are rather selective about which brutal regimes we take on. We go ones most advantageous to us, say oil and corporate interests. The US has in the past had no qualms about propping up brutal dictators as well, at the expense of the lives of countless children, as we saw over and over in Central and South America throughout the 70s and 80s, an era that most have conveniently forgotten or were never exposed to in the first place because of a media black-out on these events.

[qoute] The Properous Few and the Restless Many (I know I'll probably get flamed for this) by Noam Chomsky and Rogue States, also by Noam Chomsky <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We certainly aren't making it any safer for the Iraqi children. I am always alarmed at the pro-life stand that every abortion is murder but bombing villages and imposing sanctions that kill children is different. If you're pro-life then you should be pro-life all the way. Don't stop at the womb, all those Iraqi children have a right to life. This is sheer hypocrisy.

It seems to me that Christians spend a lot more time worrying and shielding themselves from false teachers and teachings than they do feeding the hungry and loving their enemies and blessing them as Christ told us to do. He promises us that none shall pluck us out of His hand. It's like there is a false teacher around every corner and Christians live in this dreadful suspicion towards their brothers and shunning folks who they've already judged and condemned in their minds. I experience this a lot and it interferes bigtime with the unity Jesus prayed for us, and the loving one another. The Mormons, for example, may have false teachings, but so do all these other hundereds of denominations. I admire the Mormons for getting out and beating the streets, every single door, to preach Christ. I also admire the way their church takes care of its own, and the fact that their pastors, ministers and leaders don't collect huge salaries from their sheep in the name of "vocational ministry" like most of the conventional churches do. Those within the Mormon church who truly love Jesus and who were called out by Him and are His own, He will take care of. Ditto for the rest of the cults and demoninations. There's a lot of good, genuine, loving people in every one of them. And if they are our enemies, all the more reason to love them and bless them. What credit is it to you if you love those who are already friends of yours? Frankly I have found Christianity, at least the dominant churchianity that I have seen, to be pretty cold. Jesus has been faithful but the 'church' has been a huge stumbling block for me, I am often offended. I take comfort in knowing that the Lord has willed the wheat and the tares to grow up side by side and He can do the judging because He is the only one righteous enough to do so in my opinion. Meanwhile the door of my house is open, and I will entertain the strangers that come with NO partiality. If Jesus wants to lash me for serving blueberry pie to the young Mormon brothers than so be it, I deserve it.

The figure of 100,000 is estimated by the Lancet journal and includes not just civilians but Iraqi military. http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/10/29/62614/814 The Iraq Body Count site makes a much more consersative estimate of civilian only deaths at about 16,000: http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ The IraqBody Count site has always stated that their numbers are far below the actual becasue a] they are only counting civilians and b] they are only counting those absolutely confirmed by legitimate methods. Here's the IraqBodyCount response to the Lancet's figures of 100,000: http://www.iraqbodycount.net/press/ Regardless of Iraqi casualty numbers, which are NOT being reported by our press, if you haven't noticed, I would suggest that we have far exceeded our eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth revenge and retaliation for 9/11.

There's an old saying that you don't find too many atheists in a foxhole.

I'm shocked at this thread!!!! I have an open door on my house and I pray to the Lord that I have a servant's heart to minister to whomever He sends. I invite the Mormons in for coffee and pie and they really appreciate it, Lord knows they get pretty fatigued. I invite the JWs in too and share my hospitality. I even have drunks that sleep on my couch sometimes because they need a loving place to land in their darkness. They are drawn to His light and it gives me opportunity to witness and they really appreciate it. My children see us having hearts for hospitality instead of shutting the doors of our ivory towers against all these percieved enemies who we are supposed to be loving, feeding, and shining His light upon. Jesus dined with the sinners because it's they that need Him, not the righteous. He also told us in a parable to go out into the highways and hedges and invite the beggars and lame and lost for dinner at our tables. "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, otherwise they may also invite you in return and that will be your repayment. "But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous." Open your doors, saints!!!!!!! Don't hide your lamp under a bushel basket!!! Do you not trust the Lord to guide you, keep you, protect yuou, and deliver you from evil???????????