Saved_by_Jesus

When we have sin in our lives, we are separated from God, until we confess and repent. When Jesus was on the cross, He had the sin of everyone in the world on His shoulders.....and He could not feel His Father's presence! The beatings and torture were bad enough, but what was so devastating to Him was the fact that He could not FEEL God's presence because of all the sin He had not committed on His shoulders. That's why He said "Why have You forsaken me?" Jesus had given up His Kingdom in Heaven to come to earth and die for us....He was still the Son of God, but as a human, He would still pray to His Father. It is very confusing to me too-not in that part, but in the NT in the letters from Paul, and in Revelations, where it says in Paul's greetings things like "Peace to you from God AND Jesus Christ" That's where I get thrown off, because Jesus has clearly already died and gone back to Heaven. I think though, that the key is in how the Bible talks about being "one with God". How we, as Christians,are all ONE in the body of Christ, who is IN God. I think that is somehow the key. Paul says (I can't remember the book or verse, sorry!) that "my relationship is with God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ". That one really gets me because it sure sounds like two different Beings there! And what else confuses me is why is there no mention of the Holy Spirit having a throne in Heaven? Like when Stephen got stoned, he looked up and saw the Heavens opened, and Jesus sitting at the right hand of God. Why does it not mention the Holy Spirit sitting on the other hand of God? Unless the Holy Spirit is the 7 Spirits mentioned in Revelations. I guess there are just some things we won't know until we get to Heaven.

How in the world do you say they are two different things? As I recall, we study in the word of God to stay connected and have a relationship with God, so if we lose our "salvation" or "christians backslide"--its the same, they both deal with staying connected with God. desi Backsliding I think is different than "forfeiting salvation" because look at the difference between the story of the Prodigal son, and Jacob and Esau. The Prodigal son backslid, had his fun, and then felt true remorse and wanted to come back.....just like a person who has backslid may do. But a person who "forfeits" is like Esau maybe-they specifically denied it and denounced it-maybe like deciding that Jesus is not the Son of God or something, or turning to Judaism, Buddism, or whatever other religion. Isn't backsliding getting caught up in the world, yet still believing? Forfeiting would be totally denouncing Christ I think.

I agree with the others-your minister is completely wrong, and has no scripture to back up what he is claiming. Remember the parable of the persistant widow? I'd follow that! I have a story to share that may be encouraging to you. A friend of mine told me that she got saved, and she kept praying every day that her husband would be saved too. She truly wanted him to go to church with her, pray with her, etc. But it was just not happening. Years and years went by, and she cried out to God to let her know why her husband had not gotten saved-what was she doing wrong? She was praying and praying every day and night! Her friends were praying too! What was the problem? Well, God revealed to her that she was praying for the wrong reasons! He told her that her reasons for wanting her husband saved were selfish...she wanted someone to go to church with her, to pray for her, to study the Bible with her, etc. etc.........it was purely selfish reasons in God's eyes! She asked forgiveness and repented. She then started praying that God would save her husband to use Him as a worker in His Kingdom! Immediately after that, he got saved! He is now a deacon and Bible teacher in the church! I am not trying to imply that you are asking for their salvation for the wrong reasons at all-but the story just came to my mind when I saw your post and I thought I would tell it to you. I find it very encouraging because I have been praying for my husband's salvation for 2 years now,and I always have to remind myself to pray for the his salvation for the glory of God, rather than me just wanting to have someone to go to church with, study and pray with, etc.

Wow! That is so awesome! He came through my city in 1972....I would have loved to meet him and carry that cross a few feet!

Yes, I do remember that part of the movie. He spoke of the whole experience with Bush, and mentions that he still prays for him. Hi saved; No I haven't seen the movie, but I'd like too. Here is Cincinnati, they avoid Christian movies like the plague, I have to travel about 2 hours north to Beavercreek to see anything like that. But now this is out on DVD, I might just get a copy. Thanks It just came out a few days ago, and is not out in stores yet-you have to order it from the website actually. Not sure if we're allowed to post links to other sites here, but you can google "Arthur Blessit, The Cross DVD" or something like that and find it that way.

I agree with you 100%. My point was that we cannot remove feelings from the equation. We are human beings. However, our faith is not based on those feelings. I don't believe that there is anyone here claiming it is, including the one who posed the question. I see what you are saying, and I agree with that also. We still have human feelings, but my point is that as you grow in the Lord you will come to know that your faith does not depend upon feelings. But the O.P. does not want this expressed, so I will leave it at that. Blessings, Nikki Yes Nikki-our faith does NOT depend on feelings....like I mentioned in my original post, and this was not meant to start any sort of argument about who is right, or who is wrong, because we are ALL agreeing here that our faith is based on fact, not feeling. Let me ask you this though....remember when you came to Christ originally? Remember how good you felt? Do you still have those exact feelings every day, all day? Of course you don't. Have you ever mentioned anything like that to anyone else, and got "the lecture" about how we are not to live by feelings? The point of this discussion is about the word "feelings" in relation to other's reaction when we mention that word. NOT on whether we base our faith on what we feel every day. I'm sorry-I thought I had worded the topic well enough that I was clear on what I was trying to say, but I guess I didn't. lol

Huh. This is the first that I have heard about this. The word love in reference to God is mentioned many times in the Bible, and isn't love something you feel? Very interesting that some people avoid the term. Try an experiment and you'll see what I mean. Walk up to a Christian friend or pastor, and say..."I just don't feel the presence of God anymore....." and watch how they go on and on about how we are not to worry about feelings" Then, try a different experiment....walk up and say "Wow! I got up today and really felt God's presence strongly! Praise God!" and see what they say then. Do they go on and on about how we are not to rely on feelings? Or do they say..."Really? That's so wonderful! God is good!" or something like that. It was just an interesting thing I noticed about how, when the word "feelings" is mentioned in regards to God's presence. Just an observation really. Just wondered if anyone else ever noticed it.

Hi Nikki, If I may pose a question here - what is joy? Is it not something that we feel? I agree that our faith and salvation are a fact, but we are human beings, not robots, designed by God to have feelings. IMHO, to know Jesus is to love Jesus - I don't see how the two are separated. You are correct that just because we don't "feel" God's presence does not mean that He is not there. He is indeed always there for us. Yet we all experience those desert times when we don't feel Him - and other times when we can feel His presence so strongly that it overwhelms us. Other times we get angry with God. We can not remove our feelings from our relationship with God any more than we can from our relationship with our spouses. God designed us this way. AMEN!! I hate the "desert times" I get, and long for the warm closeness I've felt in the past-but relying on those feelings would be dangerous.

Thanks Spiritman! Great comments! I know it's going to be so awesome to be in God's presence and have those feelings ALL the time, huh?! Woohoo!!

*smiles* Thank you for your reply Nikki,but as I said, this was not meant to be an argument over how we are to base our faith on fact and not feelings. The whole point I was trying to make was how people lecture you when you say "I don't FEEL God's presence"....they do like you just did-saying how we are to base our faith on fact, not feelings. Yet, if someone had said..."Wow! The presence of the Holy Spirit was so strong in my church today!"....it would not have caused you to mention how we are to base our faith on feelings. See what I mean? That was the point of the topic. I was just wondering if people do that because one is a negative comment, rather than a positive one.

Thank you for your reply! I knew someone else out there has noticed this! I totally understand what you are saying too.....when I converted, I was baptized in the Spirit. The "experience" was totally amazing-I was having dreams, and seeing visions, and "felt" God's love pour all over me, like liquid love. I had a strong "feeling" of a "connection" with God,and I had so much love for other people-all I wanted was to love other people and see them saved. It was so wonderful! Those "feelings" lasted for many months....and little by little, they faded away. And, like you, I don't sense the Holy Spirit anymore. I know that God says He will never leave or forsake us.....but it sure makes you wonder why we can't have that joy and those wonderful warm fuzzy feelings all the time like when we first came to Jesus! When you do have those wonderful feelings, and they disappear, it makes you wonder if you are "still saved"....which is exactly what Satan wants us to think. It's very scary, and I've wondered it myself for a very long time. It's so very seldom that I "feel" the Spirit anymore, and I certainly don't have the love I used to have for other people. I've wondered if, when things like this happen, that we are in the "Wilderness" part of our journey with Christ? Like the Israelites going to the Promised Land.....? I said something like this to a girl at church who is very "spirit filled" all the time. I said...."It would be so awesome if we could have those same feelings that we had when we first came to Christ,huh?" and she looked at me like I was crazy,and said....."What to you mean? I have those feelings all the time!" But then when I said that my wonderful warm fuzzy Holy Spirit feelings had gone away, I got the whole lecture on how we are not supposed to rely on our feelings. lol

Yes, I do remember that part of the movie. He spoke of the whole experience with Bush, and mentions that he still prays for him.

Anyone seen the documentary movie "The Cross" by Arthur Blessit? God spoke to him in I think 1968 and told him to build a 12 foot cross and carry it around the world, telling people about Jesus. It took him 40 years to do it, but when he finished, he made a documentary out of it. I saw it when it first came out in my town,and it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen-I cried and cried at how awesome and powerful God is, and the amazing experiences Arthur had as he went to every single nation in the world, spreading the Good News. Anyway, it's now out on DVD, and I just bought it and am about to watch it. Anyone else seen it? What did you think about the movie? If God spoke to YOU, telling you to do something similar, would you do it? Would your faith be that strong?

This is just a hypothetical topic I was pondering-not really a question, but more of an observation I guess. I've always wondered why many (not all) Christians really steer clear and condone the word "feelings" when it comes to Christianity? It's like it is a dirty word among Christians! Yes, the Bible tells us that we are to live by faith, not be sight.....and we all know that God is an invisible God,and Christians are to believe in the facts of who He is and what He has done concerning our salvation. We read this in His Word, and we know it is true, based on facts, not feelings. But my question is why do many Christians get upset/concerned if a person says something like... "I have not felt God's presence in a long time..." All of a sudden, they are bombarded with how we are supposed to live by faith, not by our feelings! Yet, if someone else says...."Oh, church was wonderful today! God's presence was so strong today!"....everyone is so happy, and comments on what a wonderful thing it is to feel God's presence in church like that! What's the difference in the first and the second statement? Is it the fact that one is a positive statement and the other is a negative statement? It is still true that a person who has a strong relationship with God is going to experience some sort of emotional feelings in their Walk, right? They are going to sense the presence of the Holy Spirit, who is our teacher, comforter, etc., etc. Think about Abraham for instance. He had never heard of the 10 commandments, he had never gone to church, he probably didn't have any worship music, and he certainly never had a Bible to read! Yet, he was written in the Faith Hall of Fame in Hebrews 11. Have you ever wondered why? Because he "felt God's presence" with him, and God spoke to him and he had a strong relationship with His Creator. What about us? What would happen to us if we did not have our Bibles to go by? What would happen if we did not have a church to go to,other Christians to fellowship with, etc? Wouldn't we have to rely on the Holy Spirit in us, assuring us of our salvation? Would we wither up and become spiritually dead, or would we FEEL the Holy Spirit in us, guiding us, teaching us, etc.? I base my faith on facts of the Bible. Yet, I have to admit that I have "felt" wonderful when I "feel" God's presence in my life. Yes, I know He is there......but isn't it great when you "feel" the presence of the Holy Spirit, or "hear" God's voice? The Bible tells us to "rejoice in the Lord always". Again though-to rejoice would mean to FEEL an emotion concerning the Lord. lol In church, depending on what denomination you belong to, you see some people in church that are obviously filled with the Spirit-full of love, singing, dancing, praising the Lord..... Then, right next to them, you may see someone who is sitting there quietly, falling asleep, or looking at their watch, not praising or worshiping at all. What is the difference in the two people, if both are true Christians? One "feels" the presence of the Holy Spirit and it makes them rejoice! The other one does not have those "feelings"-at least not at that moment. I don't know why I'm rambling about this. I just thought it would be interesting to see if others have noticed this in their Christian walk.....and again, this is NOT a debate on how we are supposed to live by faith, not feelings-it is merely an observation on how the word "feelings" seem to be such a negative word when it is used in reference to "I have not felt God in a long time" compared to "I really felt God's presence in church today!" God bless!

I have a problem with statements like these. For one, communion is not a healing process, it is a remembrance one. God heals out of love and I have not seen where penance is required to be healed anywhere in scripture. Since God does not go against anything in His word, I am going to ask that you provide scripture showing that anyone repetitively did anything to gain His favor in healing. I did not mean to imply that God only heals us if we do Communion-I'm sorry if that's what it sounded like. I was merely telling you what happened with a friend of mine and some people in my church. No, I do not have scripture references-I can only tell you what happened to those people. We can agree to disagree about when to take Communion. I choose to "remember" what Jesus did for me every day-others may want to do it only at church. I don't think either of us are "wrong". I am not in disagreement with you on communion being able to be done alone, at home. I do have trouble with people who claim miracles happening because they do something specific, like taking communion for 40 days straight. You can tell us what they said, but to believe them is another story all together. Be very careful in what you believe. Even Satan came as an angle of light and deceived. He will be coming again to deceive even more, as we read in 2 Thessalonians 2:9 ... The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders ... be careful ... test the spirits. Yes, I totally agree....Satan can and does come as an angel of light. But my friend's healing came from God. I'm not positive, but isn't that verse talking about the AntiChrist anyway? He hasn't been revealed yet, and when he is revealed, many will be decieved by his miracles, but we, as Christians, know that our Lord will appear in the sky,the same way He left...and it will be after all the other signs have passed. My friend has been a Christian for over 40 years-she has a strong Deliverance ministry, and she is filled to the brim with the Holy Spirit-no one is "immune" to Satan's tricks, but at the same time, this lady is scrupulous about testing all spirits.

I have a problem with statements like these. For one, communion is not a healing process, it is a remembrance one. God heals out of love and I have not seen where penance is required to be healed anywhere in scripture. Since God does not go against anything in His word, I am going to ask that you provide scripture showing that anyone repetitively did anything to gain His favor in healing. I did not mean to imply that God only heals us if we do Communion-I'm sorry if that's what it sounded like. I was merely telling you what happened with a friend of mine and some people in my church. No, I do not have scripture references-I can only tell you what happened to those people. We can agree to disagree about when to take Communion. I choose to "remember" what Jesus did for me every day-others may want to do it only at church. I don't think either of us are "wrong".

Thanks for the suggestions about what to say. I disagree though, about not doing it at home.... "For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, 'Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.' In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes" (I Corinthians 11:23- 26). This is implying that we can do it as often as we want. It is a "rememberance" thing we are doing for the Lord, to remind us of what He did for us......does that mean that we should only remember when we go to church, and they happen to do Communion? No-we should remember what He did often I think! My pastor did a very detailed teaching for a couple of weeks on Communion. One lady said that she had a bad torn ligament or something like that in her shoulder. She was doing Communion occasionally at home, but not every night. The Lord spoke to her and said that if she did Communion every night for 40 days, that He would heal her shoulder. She started doing it every night. About a couple of weeks into it, God spoke to her and told her stop taking her medicines for her shoulder. She did, and Satan attacked her horribly for about two days. She kept it up, not taking her medicine, and at the very end of 40 days, God healed her shoulder completely. Other people in my church started taking Communion every night and God worked miracles in their lives. God bless!

I've been trying to take communion at home every day.....but the problem is, I don't know what to say when I take it! What are the WORDS that you say as you eat the bread/cracker and drink the juice? My pastor did a sermon on communion, and the words he spoke to say were very long and detailed and my poor brain just can't wrap around it at all. Tried googling it with no luck, and the Bible references didn't exactly say what words to SAY, only that they "did it in rememberance of Him" Need some short, sweet, meaningful words for a very forgetful person like myself. lol

I became baptized in the Holy Spirit at conversion.....it was very dramatic and intense. Everything about me changed at that very moment.....the desire for every sin in my life was completely GONE. Drinking, drugs, cussing, etc. etc.....I had NO desire for it anymore, and when I was around other people who did those things, or ANY sin, it was literally like it HURT me. If someone cussed around me, I had to cover my ears because it was like my spirit HURT-or rather, the Holy Spirit in me HURT. I had so much love in me it was unreal-I adored Jesus, and had incredible amounts of love and compassion for other people-all I wanted to do was love and help people. I did not speak in tongues, but I was seeing visions and having dreams. I "felt" the Holy Spirit and God's presence all over me, constantly. I "felt" an actual connection to God. I could go on and on about how it felt to me, but I know, without a doubt that this was God and that I had been baptized in the Holy Spirit. I knew, without a doubt that I did not belong on this earth....I belonged in Heaven with Jesus-the things in this world meant NOTHING to me, and I would have happily died right then for Jesus. All those "feelings" went away, little by little every day.....I was crushed, and thought God had left me. I thought I was no longer saved because I no longer had God's STRONG presence surrounding me and no longer felt that "connection" to Him. I thought that all along I had "lost" the Holy Spirit...but I think what happened was that I was baptized in the Holy Spirit at conversion, and after it "faded", Satan really attacked me, making me believe I was not saved anymore. Either way, sorry to ramble, but I know that the "baptism" IS a different thing than what you get at conversion, because I have not met anyone who has experienced anything like what I had when they got saved....and all I know is that I have struggled so much with wondering if I still even have the Holy Spirit, because I sure don't seem to have what I had when I first got saved...and would LOVE to have it again, if it's possible to get baptized in the Spirit more than once. lol.

I had it happen this morning, and it's terrifying. I was awake in bed, trying to go to sleep. I heard this noise, like a baby crying, or maybe a cat in heat. It was getting on my nerves, so I tried to get up to see what it was, but I could not move at all! At that moment, I felt a "presence" get in bed with me. It felt like my husband had got in bed with me and curled up next to me. I felt utter terror, and that's when I "snapped out of it". I googled it and found out that it was Sleep paralysis....but I also saw very few articles about it, and a lot more articles about how people believed that it is actual demon manifestions, and even alien abductions! One lady mentioned something that totally terrified me. She said that a "presence" got in bed with her and had sex with her! She felt every sensation, and she was unable to move or open her eyes...but when she was finally able to, she "saw" (hallucination?) a gray, skeletol form on top of her. She said it was an incubus. I'm sorry-I hope that was not too "graphic" sounding. After reading that, and after what happened to me this morning, I am scared to go to bed now.