vitality22004

We do have a 'group leader' for want of a better term that describes the administrative function of organising and setting up and co-ordinating meetings. We have people we relate to in the body of Christ who are able to bring correction and impart truth into our lives...but the house church happened because we all wanted to hear God for ourselves. In an actual meeting, there is submission to the Spirit of God who has faithfully co-ordinated every meeting thus far. Many of the people who come are seasoned men and women of God who have walked with Him a long time and worshippers, all of them leaders in their own right, who have all learnt the treasure of 1 Cor 12/13 and choose to live out the body of Christ even if it is in a small cell.

The origingal question: what is pastoral authority? is easily answered by Paul's discussion on the gifts to the body: the apostles, evangelists, pastors, teachers and prophets ....were placed in the church for the equipping of the saints. The Book of Acts church developed a pattern where there was leadership, delegation of duties and mutual accountability. Paul develops the guidelines in the epistles. Where it starts to go wrong for me, Butero, is the elevation of the 'local church' above all else. There was a church at Jerusalem....but at that time the population of Jerusalem was such that there could be just one church at that locality. with the present population of chruchgoers, it follows that there is a church at every city, that is supposed to be equipped by the 'five-fold' working together in submission to one another. We have settled for the lesser...a set man over 200,300....5000 people and we call that the local church and expect God to take 5000 people's lives, visions, dreams and destinies and put them all together in one building to fulfill one man's vision, using all their resources to do so and we call this the local church and anyone who doesn't conform to this man-made system, rebellious!

I go to a house church where we all share the Word together, pray together and worship together, woth no hierarchy and everyone hears from God for themselves and each brings their portion to the table.

David, can I ask the question that Paul asked? Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed? I believe that the discussion has focused largely on the logos letter of the Word especially in Paul's letter to the Corinthian church, which we agree was written to bring a much-needed order of worship into a church in a cosmopolitan city, where people brought their traditions and cultural expressions into the church resulting in a certain degree of confusion. The verse you quoted David, was Paul's attempt in bringing balance to the issue of the gifts of the spirit. His guideline for their operation was that gifts in isolation without love is meaningless. He ties this up in his letter to the Galatian church where he expounds on the fruit of the Spirit. I agree that there has been an overemphasis on tongues and interpretation of tongues but the truth is that even the writer of the book of Romans talks about the language of the Spirit especially in the context of prayer. Rather than get into a theological debate about the letter of the Word, why not consider the truth that Jesus said that I go away and will send you the Spirit of Truth who will lead you into all things....There is one coming who will baptise you not in water but in the Spirit and fire....these gifts that are being so easily dismissed come from the bearer of them, the Holy Spirit and it is the experience of knowing Him that is far more important than speaking in tongues. He inspired the Word of Truth and the evidence of His presence in a life surrendered to Jesus, is the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace.... There might be a case for the fact that the experience can be counterfeited, that emotionalism is possible, but the true genuine baptism and many infillings of the Holy Spirit are as real an experience as the salvation one is. The fact that it happened in the Book of Acts and to Jew and Gentile was just the beginning. We are the generation of the greater works! Why do we think that we can do without this experience and the power it brings, with the prophetic and revelation and faith gifts? When one considers all the truth that was lost to the church during the Dark Ages, and the restoration through various moves of God, when truth was restored piece by piece to the church beginning with Martin Luther's 'The just shall live by faith, to the restoration of water baptism and the experience of Pentecost, you can see that every experience of the book of Acts church is relevant to the church today and MORE!

I've been hearing men of God all over the world state that this is the year when we are going to see the glory of the Lord...and 2006 is the year of the glory. What or who is the glory of God and how will we see it? More importantly, why is this the year of the glory of God and what does it mean for the church? Is the timing significant? Can it be explained prophetically?

I've been reading through this board for days and never really wanted to comment cos I go to a house church where it isn't much of an issue cos I run it!. I'm from South Africa and we often joke that when the missionaries came to Africa with the gospel, we received more than Jesus ...we got their dress code...in some parts of this continent it is sooooo hot that a suit and tie is totally inappropriate and so uncomfortable, especially without airconditioning which most churches do not have the luxury of having! Yet most churches in SA still subscribe to that dress code. In fact, it also becomes sometimes quite a source of offense, just like sitting in the same seat or pew every week often is. For me it becomes problematic when people judge the heart by the external attire...then we are heading for dangerous territory... so to answer your initial question, David, ...here is my two cents worth.... the principle of the food before idols applies and Jesus's parable about inviting those from the highway and byway who chose to come to the wedding feast, irrespective of attire or social class...so you should avoid offending your bretheren at all costs and if you are going to offend by focusing on dress code, than don't...it is more important for a soul to get saved....and if your attire is going to get in the way of that, for God's sake...conform and don't be a source of stumbling for your brother and on a lighter note...you'd stick out like a sore thumb!... I love your open policy David...most pastors in our country are not as liberal ....and I agree with you, therefore lose out on many coming into the kingdom cos the ushers move quickly to treat them as undesirables....but not everyone has been set free...and most pastors believe...if you wanna play in my garden and sit on my swing...you play by my rules....sad but true.

Seraphimbride....if you find that kind of church, I will definitely want to sign up! lol... I get though all this by knowing that I belong to the universal church...so when someone asks me...which church do you go to, my response is...the church of the firstborn! What Jesus was talking about in John 17, David, for me is about a unity that flows from being connected to Him. The doctrinal differences that separate Christians, our styles of worship, our different interpretations of the Word are nothing more than limited revelations of who Jesus is. God speaks to us so clearly in our own human body of what His idea of unity was. There's a wonderful book by Watchman Nee on the subject (although God has progressively revealed much more in the years since) where he outlines how the body fits together in function. SO for me, it does not really matter what people say or the way they behave, there is a church, with every joint connected that is related to the Head, that receives instruction from the head via our nervous system, that has the heart of the Father that beats through it and the blood of the Son that runs through its arteries and the breath of the Spirit of God that gives it life, that you and I belong to, irrespective of race or CREED...that is the church, terrible as an army with banners, the new Jerusalem, the bride of Christ...more real in the Spirit than seen with the naked eye....so we press on in faith that it will become seen as the royal diadem it was supposed to be, the crowning glory that was prophesied, the mountain of the Lord that will be raised up in the day of the Lord!

This started me thinking. What really was Judas's role? Did the Sanhedrin really need someone to point Jesus out to them? I think the purpose of God had to be more than that. It is said that Jesus was acquainted with all our sorrows: He was rejected and despised and He came unto His own and they did not recognise Him ....that was part of the plan...so that rejection could be destroyed at Calvary and that yoke on our lives too...the eyes of the Jews were blinded to the fact that He was the Messiah so they crucified the Son of God.....part of the plan...to let us Gentiles come to the light....so He needed to be denied before men....unjustly accused....and betrayed by one who wasin His inner circle...so that He could carry that pain for us on Calvary and break its hold on us forever?? What do you think?

Even though the author has said it is a work of fiction and a 'novel'...the characters were not fictional. There was a Jesus and a Mary Magdalene. It would be like me writing a book about people I know, using their real names, disputing everything they stood for and calling it fiction!

Part of his motivation may have been disappointment in Jesus, who talked of a kingdom, so he saw him as one who would overthrow Rome. Instead, He started talking about going to Jerusalem to die. Judas felt betrayed by Jesus. He had an association with the Sanhedrin so he gave Jesus up mainly because of his anger over what the Romans had died and Jesus's failure to act as the 'true Messiah' and lead a revolt that would liberate the Jews.

David I agree with you. The Word is clear: the carnal mind cannot understand the things of the spirit and the god of this world has blinded their eyes to the truth. What we can share with them is the principles of the truth in God's Word and allow our relationship with God to minister to them. The word of our testimony is far more effective.

David, you would be paying to see it...sowing into the producers pockets essentially. The book sold 40 million copies for the same reason...people were curious, wanted to challenge it...but the author used the controversy as a vehicle to promote his ideology which is antichrist in its essence. I would rather encourage all who raise the option of seeing it, to avoid it or at the very least read the truth of the Word of God as a balance to the deception that is perpetuated by it. The amazing thing for me is that people believe it because it was 'researched' and 'historical', yet so much of 'history' is based on untruth anyway. Jesus asked...''when I come will I find faith on the earth?" and He warned...there will come a time when 'the very elect will be deceived'. I won't support it at all...it's a small statement and it probably won't make a difference to the final outcome but I will not give them my time, my mind or my money for all of that has been surrendered to Him who paid the price for me.

Hypnosis is the induction of a trance state. It is not wise or scriptural because at that moment your will is not submitted to the spirit of God and you do not have the mind of Christ. You are literally opening yourself up to suggestion and we know the enemy loves the battlefield of the mind. SO DONT!!!!

The Nicene Creed, David is the one commonly used by Protestants or evangelicals. Basics: Jesus was the son of God. He was born of the virgin Mary, crucified and was buried and rose again!

Well, we then start stocking up on early Christmas gifts...start making out lists, check out who's been jolly and nice and then wait for the sales!!!! yaaaaaahhhhhh!!!

Whose report will you believe? I believe the report of the Lord. I will declare that by His stripes I am healed, that He came to give me life and life more abundantly and not come into agreement with death of any kind! I think that the initial faith response is critical in changing any verdict given to you and I choose to believe the Word of God before I settle for believing any other report. God Bless.

Well, Jesus was not born on 25th December and we still celebrate the fact that He came. A celebration of His death and resurrection is what happens in April of every year. It is linked to the Feast of Passover and the Feast of Purim but the principle remains that He Lives!

We were created in His image: He is spirit. When we are saved, we come into Christ, the perfect man, and once again we are in the image of God...our soul and body willcatch up as we work out our salvation in fear and trembling and when our mortality shall put on immortality...until then we abide in Him and He in us, so we reflect His image in what we choose, think and feel. God Bless

Jesus said, Render unto Caesar what is due unto Caesar, and My kingdom is not of this world. We are citizens of His kingdom, sojourners on earth, so the laws of the kingdom apply to us. God Bless

David, your question is so relevant to what we are hearing in the Spirit at the moment. What exactly is the Word of God, or more importantly, like Candi pointed out, who is He? God promised that in the New Covenant, His Word would be written on our hearts, a Rhema Word, a life-giving, life- sustaining Word! Everyone who believes in Jesus, needs to know Him as the Word and believe in His absolute authority and sovereignity... the written translations of men, interpretations, paraphrasing and even 'revelation' knowledge must be taken in perspective. The Holy Spirit, Jesus introduced as the Spirit of Truth, who will lead us into all truth and reveal all things. He is the Ruach, the breath of God and the Word,was God-breathed. It is Him who inspired men to write and whose authority backs up the written (logos)Word as the revelation of Jesus Christ, which was its ultimate purpose. It is Him that said that the letter killeth but the Spirit gives life..so the Rhema Word is what we should believe in for it has been revealed and written on our hearts by the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. vitality

Well. Pearly Gator, it'sstill a shame if He's visiting churches, cos we, the church are supposed tp be His habitation...lol!

Candi Thanx for the questions: they really make you think. I think David said it the way it is. Jesus's life was the life of obedience. He was restrained, constrained, muzzled and bridled by His love for the Father and even though He had all the power and the anointing, He only choise to do what the Father said, say what He said and nothing else: Pool of Bethesda...i ask you ...how hard is that? When you have the power, and you see the need and the people have been suffering for years and you are moved with compassion and touched with the feeling of their infirmities, how hard was it for Him to walk away after healing just one! It was the obedience of the Son to the Father...so He would have been in all those places most definitely, cos that's where the sinners are and where His presence was most needed....He avoided all religous traappings like the plague! vitality

He's been saying: obedience is the key - doing what He says, when He says it and doing nothing extra. He's been saying Live! He came to give us abundant life!

Very nicely put: glass half empty or half full? ; Mountain and valley: when you in the valley, all you see is the mountain, when you on the mountain, you can't see it! vitality

I have found that God speaks to you first concerning your life, especially the essentials, like a calling and a career. In Jeremiah, He said I know the plans I have for you. In Isaish, He said, In that day you will hear me say, here is the way, walk ye in it. Anything anybody else says or does, outside of you will just be a confirmation of what God has already been preparing yoour heart for. If what motivates you is teaching, it's sure to be something in that line. God Bless. Vitality