Dionysiou

This is circular reasoning. You need tangible evidence before you can believe the Bible. God requires faith. There is no way to have tangible evidence of Him. If God had a tangible evidence, then you would not be free to choose Him or reject Him. I believe this now and I believed that when I was a Christian. circular reasoning... Tangible evidence of God.... YOU ARE ALIVE!!!! We are free to choose Him with or with out tangible evidence. "I believe this now and I believed that when I was a Christian." past tense was aren't you still? Going by that logic i could believe in the pink unicorn who lives in my backyard. Anyone can choose to believe anything they want, no matter how absurd. Being alive is not evidence of God, not when there are thousands of alternate explanations. If God was tangible their wouldn't be a need for faith.

They will in the next generation of the flesh of man but not in this age. Our flesh was made to reject the truth and that's why the law and commandments were made to condemn the flesh to death. In the next generation, the law and commandments will be written in the hearts, minds and souls of all God's people. Sir you have identified yourself as a gnostic heretic... We would love you but you have rejected God's Word, and set yourself up as the only source to find God... the flames will not be pleasant I promise you that.. and unless you repent and turn around it is your eternal abode... Love Steven You have falsely accused me of being someone you have no idea about. You are disobeying the commandment to not bear false witness against they neighbor. Sinners never obey the commandments of God and do whatever pleases them instead of God. I preach the gospel for God all day long, seven days a week, until I am killed by the beast in the mind of a Christian. False prophets are pastors, priests, ministers, chaplains, teachers and preachers who preach false gospels from the pulpits of their churches. This has nothing to do with the true God. Why was he banned?

I am not sure that this is enough to explain really horrible things, like young children dying of cancer. But if this is the case, I am not sure we can speak about an infinetely benevolent Father. And, more seriously, I am not sure anymore for what Jesus died if we still have to pay for original sin. By satan's deception Adam and Eve sinned. This sin handed satan dominion of the world. The devil rules this world and is here to kill, steal and destroy our lives. The devils program is to get you to disbelieve God just as he did with Adam and Eve. The three sins he used in the beginning, and to this day is; the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life. God provided Christians the Holy Spirit and the bible to teach us how to live an abundant life in this world. Jesus is coming soon and you'll see what the garden of eden is like! Roman 109 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Satan is just working for God.

I hope you know how to sit at the Lord's feet and listen to His heartbeat. We can only hope.

What does it matter if we're in the end times or not? A lie is still a lie, no matter the time of day. Evil knows no season, is always prevalent and on the attack. Luke 12 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them. Matthew 24 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart,

Serious stuff there, O.O. I wonder if God believes we're equal to that task? But then if He tells us it will be so then.....I guess we will be. What I really find odd about that MG, is that God created us not knowing good from evil. We were literally not qualified to judge anything...... and it was the result of Satan himself by convinced Eve to eat of the fruit which in turn gave us the very knowledge to be judge worthy. Kind of funny how God works things out. yeh, but look at the amount of pain and suffering that caused! I would have rather stayed in the garden and forgotten about being judge worthy lol.

It's not surprising that churches don't go talking bout end days. Why would you bother talking about something you don't understand? Theres hundreds of ideas and interpretations of everything that is going to happen. I suppose a church could give their take on it, but how many folks would take it as truth?

yeh, fish and birds have been dying for a long time now.

I think it's insane. From what I understand, Nouwen was a gay universalist priest who leaned heavily toward Hindu teachings and practices. This would be a perfect example for this thread. I read a few quotes from him after seeing your question, and I find it ridiculous that any Christian would recommend his books and materials. However, Rick Warren doing this doesn't surprise me at all. I think these are signs of the end times of this Age of Grace where there is a departure from sound doctrine with a mixture of evil. lol everyones got their own ideas on everything. Wheres the guidance of the Holy Spirit? They have been saying it's the end times for thousands of years, every generation thinks they are really close.

How would you answer - "Why is God allowing this to happen to me? Why doesn't He stop it? Doesn't He love me?" Well i wouldn't try cherry coating it to make the person feel better. I would say, "wrong place wrong time" or "God doesn't intervene in everything that happens". Also "God obviously didn't want to stop it" and "Bad things happen to everyone, just because He didn't intervene doesn't mean He doesn't love you". The idea that God will make life easier because your christian is absurd. People make wrong decisions and make other people suffer for it. Other people make wrong decisions and make themself suffer for it. Theres a lot of ways for things to go wrong, thats the world we live in. Now i'm not saying that God doesn't send trials and stuff our way to help us, but sometimes bad things just happen.

I have always found grace very confusing. Does grace mean that it is actually God who is working through people for the better? In that no man can boast of his works because it was actually God who accomplished it? Or is it that the person that accomplishes the works and stays righteous by making the constant effort themself? Or is it a co-operative movement which needs effort and works from the people as well as help from God? So that both the person and God get credit for the accomplishments.

yeh thats an optimistic way of looking at it but i doubt it's that simple. I mean people get bashed, raped, starve, murdered and there is mostly just pain and suffering which comes out of it. I'll have to go with the "fallen world" crap happens scenario.

There are many people who want that sort of experience but don't get it. Thats one of the main arguements i hear from people. Anectdotal evidence just isn't taken seriously.

You're awake the whole time. wow, you can actually do that!? Sounds amazing and since it's a dream it doesn't matter! It actually does matter because you're the one in control. Unlike a regular dream, Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams are experienced in a state of total consciousness. You know what's happening and have the ability to stop it at anytime. Yeh but its still a dream, not reality. It like saying that when i play COD and shoot another person i am actually commiting a murder lol. Do you think that you can sin in a dream? You don't understand Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams. lol of course not so you won't be answering my question.

You're awake the whole time. wow, you can actually do that!? Sounds amazing and since it's a dream it doesn't matter! It actually does matter because you're the one in control. Unlike a regular dream, Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams are experienced in a state of total consciousness. You know what's happening and have the ability to stop it at anytime. Yeh but its still a dream, not reality. It like saying that when i play COD and shoot another person i am actually commiting a murder lol. Do you think that you can sin in a dream?

You're awake the whole time. wow, you can actually do that!? Sounds amazing and since it's a dream it doesn't matter! I just googled it and i have already done this on two occasions. First time as soon as my eyes closed i began to dream and it gave me such a fright i jumped up. Second time i just went with it. Whats the problem with it?

You know, this is extremely important. To know what your dealing with and how you can help yourself and others. Also, in my experience i have seen that the more influential and good you do for God, the stronger your relationship and faith, the more you are targeted by the principalities and powers.

Believe me man, i don't want that sort of thing happening on a regular basis. If i could stay in Gods will for longer periods of time then i would certainly be more confident in such situations. Christ saved me and i owe it to Him to listen.

Ok so a while back i had a confronting experience. Now it was very vivid so i can't say whether i was actually asleep or not. Anyway, i wake up in the middle of the night and i immediately sense the evil in my room. It's a very dark, hopeless, yucky and all round disgusting feeling. I then realise that i am levitating about 1metre above my bed while laying on my back. It was a very strange feeling and I know that there is an evil being floating right above my body holding me in position. I cannot see it in all of the darkness but I feel it draining the life out of my body. i mean literally draining me and i feel like i am going to die from it. The first thought that popped into my head was "oh no, i can't let my mum find me dead in my bed." So i make sure i don't start freaking out and decide to rebuke it. When i go to open my mouth to rebuke it, the bloody demon closes my mouth shut! It wouldn't allow me to open it and it continues to drain me! Now when this happened, i lost it for a second. Then I decided there was no point in worrying about it so i should try something else. I then begin to rebuke it in my mind and when i do, i can talk again. I say "the lord rebuke you!" and it flies around my room a bit and leaves. As it leaves my body begins to slowly fall back onto my bed and i feel my feet hit the covers first followed by the rest of my body. Next thing i remember is waking up in the morning and thinking "what happened last night, i wanna kill that thing!" It was probably the worst spiritual experience i have ever had.

Yes, there is such a thing as Scripture speaking plainly on countless issues and topics. You're speaking from the perspective of a nonbeliever, and you're talking about the problems of men - not God and the Holy Bible. Following Christ and having Him as the Head over your life is MUCH better and easier than walking alone in darkness and sin. I never argued that having Christ at the head was worse than not. I cannot see how it is easier than going secular though. Non-believers do not see themselves as walking in darkness and sin, they are just going through life.

God's Word is quite blunt on this subject and easy to understand. God hasn't changed and neither has His Word: ==================== Genesis 18:19-23 KJV For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. 22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Genesis 18:19-23 AMP For I have known (chosen, acknowledged) him [as My own], so that he may teach and command his children and the sons of his house after him to keep the way of the Lord and to do what is just and righteous, so that the Lord may bring Abraham what He has promised him. 20 And the Lord said, Because the shriek [of the sins] of Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is exceedingly grievous, 21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether [as vilely and wickedly] as is the cry of it which has come to Me; and if not, I will know. 22 Now the [two] men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. 23 And Abraham came close and said, Will You destroy the righteous (those upright and in right standing with God) together with the wicked? ==================== Genesis 19:4-7 KJV But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Genesis 19:4-7 AMP But before they lay down, the men of the city of Sodom, both young and old, all the men from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know (be intimate with) them. 6 And Lot went out of the door to the men and shut the door after him 7 And said, I beg of you, my brothers, do not behave so wickedly. ==================== Leviticus 18:22-25 KJV Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Leviticus 18:22-25 AMP You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination. [i Cor. 6:9, 10.] 23 Neither shall you lie with any beast and defile yourself with it; neither shall any woman yield herself to a beast to lie with it; it is confusion, perversion, and degradedly carnal. 24 Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for in all these things the nations are defiled which I am casting out before you. 25 And the land is defiled; therefore I visit the iniquity of it upon it, and the land itself vomits out her inhabitants. ==================== Leviticus 20:13 KJV If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13 AMP If a man lies with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable); they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. ==================== Romans 1:22-28 KJV Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Romans 1:22-28 AMP Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves]. 23 And by them the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God were exchanged for and represented by images, resembling mortal man and birds and beasts and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their [own] hearts to sexual impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin], 25 Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever! Amen (so be it). [Jer. 2:11.] 26 For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one, 27 And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another--men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution. 28 And so, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or approve of Him or consider Him worth the knowing, God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome, =================== 1 Corinthians 6:9 KJV Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1 Corinthians 6:9 AMP Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality, ==================== Ephesians 4:18-19 KJV Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. Ephesians 4:18-19 AMP Their moral understanding is darkened and their reasoning is beclouded. [They are] alienated (estranged, self-banished) from the life of God [with no share in it; this is] because of the ignorance (the want of knowledge and perception, the willful blindness) that is deep-seated in them, due to their hardness of heart [to the insensitiveness of their moral nature]. 19 In their spiritual apathy they have become callous and past feeling and reckless and have abandoned themselves [a prey] to unbridled sensuality, eager and greedy to indulge in every form of impurity [that their depraved desires may suggest and demand]. ==================== Ephesians 5:11-12 KJV And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Ephesians 5:11-12 AMP Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] expose and reprove and convict them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of or mention the things that [such people] practice in secret. ==================== 1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:9-10 AMP Knowing and understanding this: that the Law is not enacted for the righteous (the upright and just, who are in right standing with God), but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who strike and beat and [even] murder fathers and strike and beat and [even] murder mothers, for manslayers, 10 [For] impure and immoral persons, those who abuse themselves with men, kidnapers, liars, perjurers--and whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching and sound doctrine ==================== Jude 1:6-10 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Jude 1:6-10 AMP And angels who did not keep (care for, guard, and hold to) their own first place of power but abandoned their proper dwelling place--these He has reserved in custody in eternal chains (bonds) under the thick gloom of utter darkness until the judgment and doom of the great day. 7 [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns--which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity--are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire. [ Gen. 19.] 8 Nevertheless in like manner, these dreamers also corrupt the body, scorn and reject authority and government, and revile and libel and scoff at [heavenly] glories (the glorious ones). 9 But when [even] the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, judicially argued (disputed) about the body of Moses, he dared not [presume to] bring an abusive condemnation against him, but [simply] said, The Lord rebuke you! [Zech. 3:2.] 10 But these men revile (scoff and sneer at) anything they do not happen to be acquainted with and do not understand; and whatever they do understand physically [that which they know by mere instinct], like irrational beasts--by these they corrupt themselves and are destroyed (perish). ==================== Yes this is your interpretation of the text. People are able to twist an interpretation, finding reasonings or other scripture to support their view. I also agree with your view on this but there are many who would oppose it. I didn't offer any interpretation or commentary, rather I let the Scriptures speak for themselves and they do that quite bluntly and plainly. Those who try to twist these Scriptures to fit their purpose look pretty silly and foolish. So, they would have a need to write their own Bible to achieve their purpose. In the meantime, anyone with common sense should know that God's Word condemns homosexual behavior. Is there such thing as scripture speaking plainly? There is sometimes a general consensus on whats acceptable to the majority, e.g "do not murder" but there are many cases of incorrect interpretations or blurred lines. I am told time again that scripture requires a grammatical-historical-contextual interpretation but how many people actually have that? They have the Holy Spirit for guidance right? Yet there is still much discrediting disagreeance. I recall too many times when individuals have had opposing views and been labelled fake christians. Even at churches you are confronted with pastors who have their own takes on things which they spread to the masses while slapping the God label upon it. Or you have individuals cherrypicking aspects of God to, falling into a permissive sentimentality. Staying in God's will and constantly renewing your mind is possibly the only thing i can think of which would keep you switched on and alert to spiritual truths and divine reality. In a few words, following Christ is a difficult journey.

God's Word is quite blunt on this subject and easy to understand. God hasn't changed and neither has His Word: ==================== Genesis 18:19-23 KJV For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. 22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Genesis 18:19-23 AMP For I have known (chosen, acknowledged) him [as My own], so that he may teach and command his children and the sons of his house after him to keep the way of the Lord and to do what is just and righteous, so that the Lord may bring Abraham what He has promised him. 20 And the Lord said, Because the shriek [of the sins] of Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is exceedingly grievous, 21 I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether [as vilely and wickedly] as is the cry of it which has come to Me; and if not, I will know. 22 Now the [two] men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. 23 And Abraham came close and said, Will You destroy the righteous (those upright and in right standing with God) together with the wicked? ==================== Genesis 19:4-7 KJV But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Genesis 19:4-7 AMP But before they lay down, the men of the city of Sodom, both young and old, all the men from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know (be intimate with) them. 6 And Lot went out of the door to the men and shut the door after him 7 And said, I beg of you, my brothers, do not behave so wickedly. ==================== Leviticus 18:22-25 KJV Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Leviticus 18:22-25 AMP You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination. [i Cor. 6:9, 10.] 23 Neither shall you lie with any beast and defile yourself with it; neither shall any woman yield herself to a beast to lie with it; it is confusion, perversion, and degradedly carnal. 24 Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for in all these things the nations are defiled which I am casting out before you. 25 And the land is defiled; therefore I visit the iniquity of it upon it, and the land itself vomits out her inhabitants. ==================== Leviticus 20:13 KJV If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13 AMP If a man lies with a male as if he were a woman, both men have committed an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable); they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. ==================== Romans 1:22-28 KJV Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Romans 1:22-28 AMP Claiming to be wise, they became fools [professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves]. 23 And by them the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God were exchanged for and represented by images, resembling mortal man and birds and beasts and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their [own] hearts to sexual impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin], 25 Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever! Amen (so be it). [Jer. 2:11.] 26 For this reason God gave them over and abandoned them to vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one, 27 And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another--men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution. 28 And so, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or approve of Him or consider Him worth the knowing, God gave them over to a base and condemned mind to do things not proper or decent but loathsome, =================== 1 Corinthians 6:9 KJV Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1 Corinthians 6:9 AMP Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality, ==================== Ephesians 4:18-19 KJV Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. Ephesians 4:18-19 AMP Their moral understanding is darkened and their reasoning is beclouded. [They are] alienated (estranged, self-banished) from the life of God [with no share in it; this is] because of the ignorance (the want of knowledge and perception, the willful blindness) that is deep-seated in them, due to their hardness of heart [to the insensitiveness of their moral nature]. 19 In their spiritual apathy they have become callous and past feeling and reckless and have abandoned themselves [a prey] to unbridled sensuality, eager and greedy to indulge in every form of impurity [that their depraved desires may suggest and demand]. ==================== Ephesians 5:11-12 KJV And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Ephesians 5:11-12 AMP Take no part in and have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds and enterprises of darkness, but instead [let your lives be so in contrast as to] expose and reprove and convict them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of or mention the things that [such people] practice in secret. ==================== 1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:9-10 AMP Knowing and understanding this: that the Law is not enacted for the righteous (the upright and just, who are in right standing with God), but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who strike and beat and [even] murder fathers and strike and beat and [even] murder mothers, for manslayers, 10 [For] impure and immoral persons, those who abuse themselves with men, kidnapers, liars, perjurers--and whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching and sound doctrine ==================== Jude 1:6-10 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Jude 1:6-10 AMP And angels who did not keep (care for, guard, and hold to) their own first place of power but abandoned their proper dwelling place--these He has reserved in custody in eternal chains (bonds) under the thick gloom of utter darkness until the judgment and doom of the great day. 7 [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns--which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity--are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire. [ Gen. 19.] 8 Nevertheless in like manner, these dreamers also corrupt the body, scorn and reject authority and government, and revile and libel and scoff at [heavenly] glories (the glorious ones). 9 But when [even] the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, judicially argued (disputed) about the body of Moses, he dared not [presume to] bring an abusive condemnation against him, but [simply] said, The Lord rebuke you! [Zech. 3:2.] 10 But these men revile (scoff and sneer at) anything they do not happen to be acquainted with and do not understand; and whatever they do understand physically [that which they know by mere instinct], like irrational beasts--by these they corrupt themselves and are destroyed (perish). ==================== Yes this is your interpretation of the text. People are able to twist an interpretation, finding reasonings or other scripture to support their view. I also agree with your view on this but there are many who would oppose it.

This is patently false. "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9-10). Homosexuality violates at least two of the above. If people are ignoring the text to fell like it is becoming 'ok', that doesn't change the plain and simple, unavoidable meaning of the text. By contrast, Jesus died for our sins and we're commanded "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone" (Romasn 12:18), "for the weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds" (2 Cor. 10:4). We have no scriptural justification to physically harm people, as Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place" (John 18:36). The text is clear, but people are corrupt and will ignore the clarity of the text to promote what they want. To these people, you are the one who is corrupt and ignoring the clarity of the text. In any case, i interpret those verses the same as you do.

Who is to say who is reading it with their heart and who isn't? And we can't disregard the undeniable influence society has had on people interpretation's of the Bible through-out the years. Not to mention, again, there are many different denominations of Christianity with many different interpretations. Sorry, I didn't notice that we were back on topic here. I didn't say anything about reading with their heart. I submit that one has to read with their eyes and interpret with their brain. Certainly there are interpretations that differ and certainly that has a great impact on society, but it doesn't make the plain meaning of the Biblical text any harder to interpret or demonstrate. oh but society controls the interpretations! They change by the decade to suit the progression of society. Take homosexuality for example, some say Jesus didn't care while others claim it to be an abomination! 50 years ago it would have been the latter, now it's becoming "ok". The plain meaning of the bible varies from person to person, so there isn't anything plain about it. Demonstrating is left to the individual who interpreted it so you will have people being martyrs through self sacrifice or killing their demon possessed mother to save her.

Why do atheists attack christianity? I have spoken to a lot of atheists. Many of them were brought up in christian homes but after studying the word and failing to find this God they really began to search for answers. Most that i have met know the bible better than the christians i know. They see religion as a disease that should be eradicated because it is viewed as primitive. Notions such as passing the sin onto an innocent third party is immoral because it removes accountability from the individual. Another one is using God as a safety blanket. I have heard many many reasonings. If these had answers that were straightforward we wouldn't be in this continuous struggle.