JohnD

Roman Catholicism is the outcome of the great hijacking of the early Church under Emperor Constantine. Essentially, it is what the Roman Empire eventually morphed into. Instead of an Emperor, a Pope. Instead of a Senate, the body of Cardinals. Instead of regional governors, Bishops. Etc. And the world capital of this empire with a Christian label on it is... Rome, Italy. Constantine legalized Christianity to prop up his crumbling empire. It was fractured enough to have to have two capital cities to govern it. And Christianity despite the heinous persecution had a cohesion his empire sorely lacked. Then came the realization that no human government enjoys the loyalty and perpetuity that a religion does. So, Constantine and his mother Helena set out to build a religion with a Christian face to it. Through this abomination entered most all of the pagan traditions the Church today is rife with. Pagan fertility symbols like colored eggs and bunnies ritualistically contaminate the observance of the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. And no matter the convoluted attempts to explain away the pagan name Easter, it is still a reference to the ancient pagan goddess Astarte / Ishtar (which predates the Germanic verbiage scholars who attempt to claim the name isn't pagan). Jesus did not ordain the observation of his resurrection or his birth. He ordained the observation of his death until he returns in the definition of Passover Seder (this is my body, this is my blood) which the Roman Catholics also distorted with the Eucharist transubstantiation. Most Protestant denominations did not reform enough having carried most Roman Catholic doctrine / dogma / traditions with them. When Jesus saves anyone, it is despite all these compromises, heresies, and traditions of man.

Hebrews 10:20 (KJV) 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Luke 23:43 Jesus said to the thief on the cross who believed in him "today you will be with me in paradise." The only passages in scripture the word paradise appear in are: Luke 23:43 2 Corinthians 12:4 Revelation 2:7 Each one refers to Heaven where God is. Jesus in his body laid in the tomb (heart of the earth) three days and three nights (Matthew 12:39-40) but his Spirit (which is eternal and cannot die) descended to sheol to announce the victory to all sides there (1 Peter 3:18-19) then took the inhabitants of Abraham's Bosom to heaven that self same day (Ephesians 4:8-10) in that three hour time span from his death on the cross at 3 PM till sunset 14 Nisan 32 CE. Since the cross all who die in Christ go directly to heaven in spirit (2 Corinthians 5:8). The thief on the cross who died after Jesus died was the first Christian believer to go directly to heaven in death. Later, when Jesus was raised from the dead and said in John 20:17 that he had not yet ascended to the Father, he was referring to his resurrected form. He had not ascended to the Father in his resurrected form yet. But in his disembodied Spirit, he had been in heaven for almost every hour of the three days and and three nights his body laid lifeless in the tomb.

Bless his heart. Sacred to death.

I just want to rescue them all...

Several controversial doctrines are proven true or false when we learn that God calls people apart from the rest of the world in two ways: * physically * spiritually A distinction was made from earliest days between those who are faithful to God (spiritually) and those who are not. Abel was faithful to God, Cain was not. Noah and his family were faithful to God, no one else was. Etc. But God also made another distinction when he called Abram of the Chaldeans apart from his people and from the rest of the world to build a physical house and later a physical nation of people (Israel) through which God would usher his Word into the world in two forms: * the written Word * the Living Word This physical house / nation / people are the chosen of God (physically). They are born into this heritage. But there is yet a distinction within this election: * physical * spiritual Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV) 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Notice this calling can apply to females as well as males. The act of physical circumcision is a sign of physical heritage but the act of circumcision of the heart is an act of spiritual fidelity and submission to the Spirit of God. It is a calling and an election. Philippians 3:3 (KJV) 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. This is the point the Apostle Paul was making in: Romans 2:28–29 (KJV) 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. And: Romans 9:6 (KJV) 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Romans 2:28... he is not a spiritual Jew which is one outwardly neither is spiritual circumcision of the outward flesh... but he is a spiritual Jew who is one inwardly and spiritual circumcision is of the heart in the spirit... not in the legal heritage but whose praise (literally whose judahiteness see Genesis 29:35) is not of humanity (the flesh) but of God (the Spirit). Romans 9:6... for they who are of physical Israel are not all (or complete) Spirit Israel... Nothing else makes sense about these passages. There is three categories in God's economy: * pagan unbelievers (gentiles) * Physical Israel / Judah * Spirit Israel And this is why there is no mention of the nations / gentiles (pagan unbelievers) who would be included in the New Covenant: Jeremiah 31:31–34 (KJV) 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. This settles the score about: * who are the chosen / elect * the kingdom of God / kingdom of heaven * replacement theology / inclusion theology And the text in Jeremiah goes on to say: Jeremiah 31:35–37 (KJV) 35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. Physical Israel will remain a people as long as there is an earth and heaven. But Spirit Israel will be with God in the New Heaven - Earth after the present earth and heaven are passed away. Certain false doctrines have emerged that blur the lines of distinction between Physical and Spirit Jews (that the Jews have another method of salvation in God's plan or a second chance of various figments of people's fertile imaginations), but it is the same for the Jew as anyone else that we must believe in the Messiah Yeshua Jesus and nothing else or no one else (John 14:6, John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10). And even in the ability for God to graft Jewish people back into the vine (Romans 11) it still remains an issue that only "if they do not continue in unbelief" (Romans 11:23). The Jewish people are the chosen people of Earth. Spiritual Jews are the chosen people of heaven: Galatians 4:21–31 (KJV) 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Um... Jesus is the Testator of the New Testament. The point is that the Old Testament was in effect until the cross of Christ. The New Testament did not begin until then: Matthew 27:50 Mark 15:37 Luke 23:46 John 19:30 Everything before these scripture references is OLD Testament. The Sermon on the Mount is Old Testament... etc.

God Bless You All ! ! !

In the overall context of the Bible it is fair to say that Elijah was taken UP into the sky, but by the word of the Lord Jesus that no one ascended to heaven but him indicates Elijah had not ascended to the third heaven where God's throne is. He simply went up into the first heaven (sky) until out of sight of Elisha. His destination (and Enoch's) were as the rest of the faithful dead until the cross: Sheol to the side Luke 16 refers to as the Bosom of Abraham. When Jesus died on the cross, he descended to Sheol to declare the victory and to ascend to the third heaven with all the faithful dead in Abraham's Bosom the self same day he died on the cross (Luke 23:43, Ephesians 4:8-10, 1 Peter 3:18-19). And there, ever since that ascension, all the faithful dead go directly to the third heaven in death spiritually (2 Corinthians 5:8) until the general resurrection at the last day (Revelation 20:10-15).

I am not good with money. Never have been. I entrust that burden to my more than capable Beloved Bride. ← who could have been a famous lawyer I do understand that where money is involved there are MANY rabbit trails. 1 + 1 = 2 in my way of thinking but then comes the subterfuge when $$$ is involved... well that depends on what side of the ledger and in which set of books you are recording this... And it has gone for millennia. I wouldn't deal with banks or markets etc. if I never had to. But they have society by the small hairs... Now they are wanting us to trust and invest in automation currency. The more automated anything is the easier it is to hack. That's strike number one. The more automated anything is, the easier it is to lose that which you cannot afford to lose. Strike two. The more automated anything is, the harder it is for its backers to obscure the fact that they are ripping the rest of us off. Strike three. You OUTTA HERE ! ! ! P.S. has anyone actually explained what bit coin really is?

Let's get to the root on the matter. Prophet / prophecy / prophesy / prophetic all come from the same root word and meaning: To profess. To make a statement. Prophet = Professor Prophesy / prophecy = profess Prophetic = profession. So you see, little emphasis is to be truly placed on the one having the honor of professing the Word of God. The emphasis is on the profession (the Word of God) instead. And this understanding also lends itself to the distinction between prophecy and predictive prophecy. All of which hinges on the Word of God and the God who is giving us his Word. Prophecy can declare current issues and events, past issues and events, or future issues and events. So you see, it's all about God and his Word and his ability to see all things past present and future. And nothing to do with man (except the honor bestowed by God upon the human mouthpiece / scribe).

What are you trying to say? That some of us are old enough to have seen him?

Anything doctrinal...

My two cents... Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15). Human beings are made in his likeness (Genesis 1:26). My take from this is God the Word, the lone Creator in the beginning of all things created (Isaiah 44:24 / John 1:1-3 / Colossians 1:15-16) created the first Adam in the pattern the Father would created the last Adam (John 1:14 / 1 Corinthians 15:45). Genesis 1:26–27 (KJV) 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Our Mia is completely blind. Her eyes were diseased and had to be removed just after her birth. She gets around so well most of the time we forget she cannot see.

If we could only rescue them all...

Bless them!!!

Chuck Missler, late Bible expositor, used to say that the Book of Revelation was the best place to start reading and studying the Bible because it drives you back into the rest of the Bible to learn the meaning of the symbolism. So I grant your point. It is a good one. But as to the interpretation of the scriptures, the Bible itself explains how to properly interpret the scriptures (as I showed above). God's Word is flawless. Human language on the other hand is not. And human understanding is a mess. When does the word trunk mean a suit case, or when is it a car compartment, or when is it the schnoz of an elephant? For example. No, the best interpretation is from Him who wrote the Bible.

Setting aside the traditions of man (which infests biblical doctrine in the organized Church more than we realize), we can get to Holy Spirit interpretation and tutelage of the scriptures that will astound and amaze us. Jesus warned against the traditions of man in general (Mark 7:7 / Mark 7:13) and at times in his Earthly ministry specifically citing where the religious leaders of the Jews misled the people (which he referred to as the leaven of the Pharisees). The Sermon on the Mount is replete with his course correction from where the traditions of man had misled the people in the Law. Modern denominations are no different than the religious leaders back then, in that we are all susceptible to human reasoning interfering with God's revelation to man (the scriptures and their accurate interpretation). This is usually where there a spitting contest is raised "you think you know it all?" or "so YOUR interpretation is the RIGHT one?" No. This is about the absolute interpretation by the only qualified Interpreter the Holy Spirit (who wrote the scriptures through the writing prophets). 2 Peter 1:20–21 (KJV) 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. * We are to know this first (to head off at the start any false interpretations) * No portion of scripture is of any private interpretation (the word prophecy is not restricted to predictive prophecy but applies to all professed scripture; for all scripture came in the manner described in verse 21 through the prophets) * Specifically stated that it is NOT by the will of man (nor of our reasoning / rationale etc). * Naming the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit as the ONLY interpreter of God's word Jesus not only warned about how the interpretations of man can nullify the Word of God and make even the worship of him in vain... he expressly contrasted it juxtaposed it with the will and ways of God in Matthew 16:17 and Matthew 16:23 ← in which he revealed the ultimate source of human thinking as from the devil which is why he called Peter Satan. Jesus echoed this satanic origin of human so-called wisdom in John 8:44. The Holy Spirit is our only source for truth and factual scriptural interpretation (John 16:13). All scripture conflicts, denominational distinctions, and confusion comes entirely from human interference and interpreting the Word of God by any other means than the Holy Spirit who wrote the Bible. And it stands to reason that if we want to know the meaning God intended, we would let God tell his own story. Man is gullible. We cannot truly even tell right from wrong, nor even if we are getting the actual interpretation from the actual Holy Spirit. The scriptures say the devil feigns to be an angel of light. So how can we be certain? Test the Spirits to be certain they are from God (1 John 4:1 echoing 1 Thessalonians 5:21). How do we do this? By the scriptures themselves (Acts 17:11 / 2 Timothy 3:16-17). Then we are privy to the full meaning of scripture (Proverbs 25:2, Deuteronomy 29:29) and learn the manner in which God reveals truth in scripture (Isaiah 28:9-13). Then there is only one camp of interpretation one belief system one Body focused on the one God and his one truth. And no longer the attributed beliefs to "the Baptists believe this" and "the Pentecostals believe that" or the Presbyterians believe the other..." In John 17 (the true Lord's prayer) Jesus prayed several times that we in the Body of believers be one as the Father and he are one. Wow... wow. Look around... are we one? One might argue we are one in the centrality of our faith in Jesus... but I remind us all: Mark 7:7 (KJV) 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Matthew 7:21–23 (KJV) 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Scary! They say the greatest sins are committed closest to the altar... that would have to be the deception of a would-be believer whose faith in nullified by the deceptions of man wrapped in tradition and doctrine. Not pointing the finger at anyone here. Just trying to point out; that of all the things in life we must be absolutely certain of, believing in the genuine Jesus must be above all and that no one of us should risk this in any way but must self check / perspective check / double triple / quadruple check our own faith by the Holy Spirit who guides us to all truth.

Whether Jewish or Gentile born, becoming a believer in Jesus Christ is to be a member of the Spirit house of Israel. It does not make a Gentile born believer a physical Jew but a Spirit Jew. A physical Jew is not a Spirit Jew until they believe in Jesus. They are a physical Jew and are chosen / elect as the physical heirs of Abraham through which God ushered the Word of God into the lost world in two forms (the written Word the Bible and the Living Word the Messiah Jesus). Physical Jewish people are God's chosen of Earth. Spirit Jewish people are God's chosen of Heaven. Note the contrast between the two and what the line of demarcation is: Galatians 4:21–31 (KJV) 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. God is indeed no respecter of persons especially in that the offer of salvation is to everyone (1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2) but only realized through the activation of that prepaid Grace through individual faith (John 3:16-18). So while God is no respecter persons there is a condition for salvation, eternal life, being in the family of God, a Spirit Jew of the Spirit house of Israel.

Predestination (heaven for believers, hell for unbelievers) and free will are spelled out in the passage: John 3:16–18 (KJV) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. It's just that simple.

I personally believe God has always drawn the distinction between the physical and the spiritual. Think of it, the difference between Esau and Jacob... one was secular the other theist. The Apostle Paul wrote: Romans 9:6 (KJV) 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Not Israel that are of Israel? What's that about? I believe the answer is found in what else he wrote: Romans 2:28–29 (KJV) 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. 1. Circumcision is of the heart (Deuteronomy 10:16) ← which means females can be circumcised in this way as well 2. the word praise of God and not men refers back to the original meaning of the word Jew / Judah (Genesis 29:35). Whose "Jewishness" is not of men but of God (meaning spirit Jew). 3. The New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-37) refers only to the House of Judah and Israel. No mention of Gentiles. But as far back as Abraham God intended the Gospel to be to all people (Galatians 3:8). 4. And note the qualification for being the chosen of God: Philippians 3:3 (KJV) 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. By these I justify the claim in my icon location being in the Spirit House of Israel.

Good point. BTW I was trying to reinsert my presence here at WCM. And I came across this topic.

The 144,000 mentioned in the Bible's Book of Revelation are often interpreted as a symbolic representation of all of God's people, including those from the 12 tribes of Israel. Explanation The number 144,000 is derived from 12 x 12 x 1,000. The number 12 represents the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles of Jesus. The number 1,000 is a generic number that represents a large multitude. The 144,000 are marked with the Seal of God on their foreheads, which identifies them as worshipers and servants of the Lamb. The 144,000 are protected from God's wrath against unrepentant sinners. Other interpretations Some interpretations of the 144,000 include: They are Jews from each tribe who became believers in Jesus Christ. They are Jews who are saved during the final seven year tribulation period. They are recently converted Jewish evangelists sent out to bring sinners to Jesus Christ. They are Jewish Christians, sealed for deliverance from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD

Jesus warned us about our human nature with prophetic hints like Matthew 16:18 (in contrast to the ways of God) and being ultimately influenced by Satan (which is why he called Peter that in Matthew 16:23). He echoed this at the opposition of the Jewish leaders (John 8:44). But this is a nature that plagues us all. And what we must overcome once we have the Holy Spirit of God living in us through faith in Christ Jesus the LORD. To live by the Spirit rather than the flesh. That being said. The devil hates God. This is why his influence affects so many people in the world. They either hate God outright, or they submit to some reinvention of a god that fits their liking. The devil hates Christians which is why there has been so much persecution of Christians over the millennia. The devil loathes Jewish people because they are the people God called and set aside to usher his word into this realm in two forms (the Bible and the Living Word Jesus) to accomplish God's plan of salvation / redemption. So, even as believers we must overcome our sin nature (stop listening to it / being influenced by it / following its lusts)... and part of that human nature is a thick dose of antisemitism. I have heard believers bad mouth the Jewish people until they were corrected by how God feels about the Jewish people. Then they repent and love them if for no other reason than God loves them. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.